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  • #31
    Originally posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
    I didn't intend to start a debate or an argument but the course of conversation naturally led it that direction. I just wanted to share the thoughts and feelings I had in church yesterday. This is a political topic, but my views on it are influenced by my religious beliefs.

    I listed several scriptures that influence my thinking. I don't see any scriptures that would cause me to change my mind. If anybody has any "get rich or die trying" or "tough luck to your neighbor" scriptures, point them out to me and I will consider them.
    You may have read the scriptures but you don't understand them.

    Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk 2
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by venkman View Post
      It's called individual voluntary action and collective voluntary charity, not forced wealth redistribution at the point of a gun. Surely you can see a difference.
      I do see a difference. A few months ago, more people voluntarily voted for a Presidential candidate who advocated universal healthcare, than for a candidate who opposed it.

      The government "redistributes wealth" to maintain the military, educate our children, provide fire and police services and build roads.

      Why should I pay for a road to Castle Dale? I never go to Castle Dale? Who the hell ever goes to Castle Dale? Maybe BYU coaches when they were recruiting Shawn Bradley, but that's about it.
      "I'm going to go back to CUF now, where the censorship is less, the average IQ is higher, and we don't have to deal with so much of this nonsense. Goodbye." - SoonerCoug

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
        You may have read the scriptures but you don't understand them.
        That may be true. But approximately 20% of the Gospels involve Jesus healing various people. I think society should do likewise.
        Last edited by The Fourth Nephite; 01-22-2013, 10:20 AM.
        "I'm going to go back to CUF now, where the censorship is less, the average IQ is higher, and we don't have to deal with so much of this nonsense. Goodbye." - SoonerCoug

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Jacob View Post
          This is not necessarily the case. You should read up on the research.
          I'd bet you $20 that the cost to diagnose and treat her early are miniscule to the costs to treat her at an advanced stage.
          "I'm going to go back to CUF now, where the censorship is less, the average IQ is higher, and we don't have to deal with so much of this nonsense. Goodbye." - SoonerCoug

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
            That may be true. But approximately 20% of the Gospels involve Jesus healing various people. I think society should do likewise.
            I think the gospels make it very clear we are to take care of the vulnerable amongst us and I think that even includes the shitbags who take advantage of the system. That is obviously an obligation that Christians knowingly and willingly take upon themselves.
            Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
            -General George S. Patton

            I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
            -DOCTOR Wuap

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
              What else would you privatize?
              Marijuana production, the porn industry and the making of assault rifles with magazines that store fifty rounds, and I am talking Marine rounds, busta!
              Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
              -General George S. Patton

              I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
              -DOCTOR Wuap

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
                I do see a difference. A few months ago, more people voluntarily voted for a Presidential candidate who advocated universal healthcare, than for a candidate who opposed it.

                The government "redistributes wealth" to maintain the military, educate our children, provide fire and police services and build roads.

                Why should I pay for a road to Castle Dale? I never go to Castle Dale? Who the hell ever goes to Castle Dale? Maybe BYU coaches when they were recruiting Shawn Bradley, but that's about it.
                They did. They also voted for a hell of a lot of Representatives opposed to it. They also have elected more opposers of it to be their Governors and to populate their state legislatures than they have in a very, very long time. So there is a great deal of conclusions to draw on the issue.

                I agree with you about the Road to CastleDale. If it were private you would only have to pay your fair share for where you went. Prices for the CastleDale road would increase and those would be passed along via higher prices for Thanksgiving Turkeys, coal and US grade A Bovine!
                Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
                -General George S. Patton

                I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
                -DOCTOR Wuap

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
                  That may be true. But approximately 20% of the Gospels involve Jesus healing various people. I think society should do likewise.
                  Are there any scriptures that say we should tax people in order to finance the system? Or are their any scriptures that say "a person or company has to take the price given to them by the government to provide services"?

                  Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk 2
                  "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

                  "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
                    They did. They also voted for a hell of a lot of Representatives opposed to it. They also have elected more opposers of it to be their Governors and to populate their state legislatures than they have in a very, very long time. So there is a great deal of conclusions to draw on the issue.

                    I agree with you about the Road to CastleDale. If it were private you would only have to pay your fair share for where you went. Prices for the CastleDale road would increase and those would be passed along via higher prices for Thanksgiving Turkeys, coal and US grade A Bovine!
                    The road to Castledale would never get built. There's no enough capital to justify its existence. And no one would ever live there by choice without a road.

                    Considering your industry.......what about the universal service fee?
                    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
                      That may be true. But approximately 20% of the Gospels involve Jesus healing various people. I think society should do likewise.
                      if we could heal how jesus did by simply touching them or being touched then it would be a lot easier.

                      Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk 2
                      "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

                      "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
                        Are there any scriptures that say we should tax people in order to finance the system? Or are their any scriptures that say "a person or company has to take the price given to them by the government to provide services"?

                        Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk 2
                        There's the "render unto Caesar " scripture. The Jews in Jesus' time didn't like a lot of the Roman laws and Jesus didn't encourage them to revolt.

                        One of our articles of faith states that we believe in being subject to governments and in honoring and sustaining the law. If you don't like the law, campaign to change it.

                        If somebody thinks there's a better way to help uninsured or underinsured people than the current proposed system, I think that's fine. But as a nation, we have largely failed in this.
                        "I'm going to go back to CUF now, where the censorship is less, the average IQ is higher, and we don't have to deal with so much of this nonsense. Goodbye." - SoonerCoug

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                          The road to Castledale would never get built. There's no enough capital to justify its existence. And no one would ever live there by choice without a road.

                          Considering your industry.......what about the universal service fee?
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe's_law

                          Funny you bring up USF. For the record a few notes about USF would be prudent:

                          1.) USF was originally a private industry answer to the question of how to accomplish universal service under the intellectual underpinnings of Metcalf's Law. USF began as part of the 1934 Telecom Act and it was totally administered between private companies until divestiture of Ma Bell in 1984. Then it became codified by the federal government in 1996. So there is some argument that USF is a user fee rather than a tax and the historical fact is it has genesis amongst private businesses seeking to solve the problem of deploying ubiquitous telecom infrastructure. While USF is now justified using most of the same heartstringing arguments used for most social programs, the origins of it were based upon the belief that the network was more valuable if it were ubiquitously deployed - but back then a greater percentage of the population lived rural.

                          2.) Saying that the reality is it is a basic re-distribution from urban areas to rural areas because of the belief that the benefits rural America provides (food sources, power, hot chicks with big ta-tas that are usually very nieve and easy to be taken advantage of) benefit us all. It is often under attack because liberals don't like it because they don't get many votes in the middle of nowhere Montana and Republicans can be against it if they are wound up by Tea Partiers that if you want to live in rural America you pay more for it, harumph! I would often ask my FIL, while he was listening to his right wing stuff, if his experience with USF made him pause for a moment or two when other folks would be advocating for shared social costs for their pet issue. He would always look at me funny.
                          Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
                          -General George S. Patton

                          I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
                          -DOCTOR Wuap

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
                            I do see a difference. A few months ago, more people voluntarily voted for a Presidential candidate who advocated universal healthcare, than for a candidate who opposed it.

                            The government "redistributes wealth" to maintain the military, educate our children, provide fire and police services and build roads.

                            Why should I pay for a road to Castle Dale? I never go to Castle Dale? Who the hell ever goes to Castle Dale? Maybe BYU coaches when they were recruiting Shawn Bradley, but that's about it.
                            I don't stop in Castle Dale, but I go through Castle Dale in order to visit with family two or three times a year; four if I decide to do the pheasant hunt.
                            "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill


                            "I only know what I hear on the news." - Dear Leader

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                              The road to Castledale would never get built. There's no enough capital to justify its existence. And no one would ever live there by choice without a road.

                              Considering your industry.......what about the universal service fee?
                              I'd live in Ferron by choice without a road. I don't have to go through Castle Dale to get there, but it's the faster route.
                              "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill


                              "I only know what I hear on the news." - Dear Leader

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
                                There's the "render unto Caesar " scripture. The Jews in Jesus' time didn't like a lot of the Roman laws and Jesus didn't encourage them to revolt.

                                One of our articles of faith states that we believe in being subject to governments and in honoring and sustaining the law. If you don't like the law, campaign to change it.

                                If somebody thinks there's a better way to help uninsured or underinsured people than the current proposed system, I think that's fine. But as a nation, we have largely failed in this.
                                Who said anything about not sustaining the law?? IYou started this thread about fake family in order to get peopple to come over to your political persuasion.

                                Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk 2
                                "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

                                "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

                                Comment

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