Originally posted by Crockett
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Guns
Collapse
X
-
"If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
-
Comment
-
Originally posted by old_gregg View Postagree, ted--all semi automatic rifles should be banned. handgun and shotgun magazines should be capped at 10 rounds. we should treat ammo purchases like we do gun purchases.
As someone in the minority who carries a handgun regularly, I'd prefer magazine caps be 15 rounds, since I carry for predators, and in a self-defense situation I'd like the 5 extra rounds if a bear is charging me or if I'm trying to protect a cow from a big cat. For the same reason, I think there is a use for semi-automatic rifles and I wouldn't like to see them banned completely, but those are all minor quibbles.
Mostly, I think where we differ is the deterrent effect that arming competent people within schools will have. You seem to be in the camp that school shooting will continue at the same rate and that more handguns will turn them into an OK Corral. That may be true, but I'm more of the opinion that knowing there are many possible armed defenders, people will choose different targets and school shootings will slowly become something that happens once a decade, if that. The fact that shootings occur overwhelmingly in gun-free zones leads me to think that the possibility of armed resistance is a significant deterrent, but it's not something that can be proven, just like the OK Corral scenario is concerning but cannot be proven.
One thing that I think nobody can dispute is the need to better track people who should not legally possess a gun but seem to easily acquire them. Also, the FL incident suggests that we are very poorly trained at identifying and eliminating threats, whether they're weilding an AR, shotgun, or a sword.sigpic
"Outlined against a blue, gray
October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
Grantland Rice, 1924
Comment
-
Originally posted by Crockett View Post
You have to wonder if the Coward county sheriff office is going to be sued over this... It would be a shame if Sheriff Israel had to give up his new patrol cruiser:
1un0-DZ6DtxTq0OW3ZuCGRS7l67V7ztfQZJGjKQhDUc.jpg"If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
Comment
-
Originally posted by cowboy View PostThe fact that shootings occur overwhelmingly in gun-free zones leads me to think that the possibility of armed resistance is a significant deterrent, but it's not something that can be proven, just like the OK Corral scenario is concerning but cannot be proven."...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
"You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
- SeattleUte
Comment
-
Originally posted by cowboy View PostI think this is reasonable, but I also think we're too far down the road to have it make a difference. It's all opinion, so I could be as wrong as I believe you are. I think there are just too many large capacity magazines and semi-automatic rifles in circulation to keep them out of the hands of bad people who want them. As long as bad people can get them, it's my opinion that good people should be able to have them as well. Specifically, I think of the Texas church shooting, where the shooter should not have legally been able to own an AR, and he was taken out by someone with a legal AR. Likewise, the Florida shooter should not have been able to legally own an AR.
As someone in the minority who carries a handgun regularly, I'd prefer magazine caps be 15 rounds, since I carry for predators, and in a self-defense situation I'd like the 5 extra rounds if a bear is charging me or if I'm trying to protect a cow from a big cat. For the same reason, I think there is a use for semi-automatic rifles and I wouldn't like to see them banned completely, but those are all minor quibbles.
Mostly, I think where we differ is the deterrent effect that arming competent people within schools will have. You seem to be in the camp that school shooting will continue at the same rate and that more handguns will turn them into an OK Corral. That may be true, but I'm more of the opinion that knowing there are many possible armed defenders, people will choose different targets and school shootings will slowly become something that happens once a decade, if that. The fact that shootings occur overwhelmingly in gun-free zones leads me to think that the possibility of armed resistance is a significant deterrent, but it's not something that can be proven, just like the OK Corral scenario is concerning but cannot be proven.
One thing that I think nobody can dispute is the need to better track people who should not legally possess a gun but seem to easily acquire them. Also, the FL incident suggests that we are very poorly trained at identifying and eliminating threats, whether they're weilding an AR, shotgun, or a sword.
Class 1 Air Rifles and Paintball Guns, all kinds -- unrestricted
Class 2 Muzzle-loading Black Powder Rifles and Pistols -- unrestricted
Class 3 Shotguns. Breach-loading, single shot or double-barrel (side-by-side or over-under), no pump action or semi-automatic. --unrestricted.
Class 4 Rimfire rifles (not semi-automatic) -- unrestricted
Class 5 Single-shot Centerfire Rifles & Pistols. Breach-loading: Bolt-action, pump-action, and lever-action single-shot rifles and pistols. -- Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard).
Class 6 Pump-action or self-loading shotguns having a magazine capacity of 5 or fewer rounds. Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard). Transfer fee of $500, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.
Class 7 All self-loading, semi-automatic rifles with a magazine capacity of 5 rounds or less. Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard). Transfer fee of $500, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.
Class 8 Pump-action or self-loading shotguns having a magazine capacity of 6 or more rounds. Restricted. The Military, Law Enforcement, Firearms Manufacturers, Farm Workers, Forest Rangers, Collectors and Clay Pigeon Shooters may own Class 7 firearms as determined by Congress. Transfer fee of $1000, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.
Class 9 All self-loading, semi-automatic rifles with a magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds. Restricted. The Military, Law Enforcement, Firearms Manufacturers, and Professional Shooters. Transfer fee of $1000, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.
Class 10 All handguns with a capacity above one shot. Not sure yet, but this needs to be so tightly regulated that there are no second chances.
Class GTFO Fully-automatic or worse"Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied
Comment
-
Originally posted by Northwestcoug View PostI keep seeing this argument. Is this really a thing? Is there data for both gun-free and gun-friendly zones? Are there even gun-friendly school zones?sigpic
"Outlined against a blue, gray
October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
Grantland Rice, 1924
Comment
-
Originally posted by wuapinmon View PostOk, so people keep asking me what I think is fair. I like this. It's my own work.
Class 1 Air Rifles and Paintball Guns, all kinds -- unrestricted
Class 2 Muzzle-loading Black Powder Rifles and Pistols -- unrestricted
Class 3 Shotguns. Breach-loading, single shot or double-barrel (side-by-side or over-under), no pump action or semi-automatic. --unrestricted.
Class 4 Rimfire rifles (not semi-automatic) -- unrestricted
Class 5 Single-shot Centerfire Rifles & Pistols. Breach-loading: Bolt-action, pump-action, and lever-action single-shot rifles and pistols. -- Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard).
Class 6 Pump-action or self-loading shotguns having a magazine capacity of 5 or fewer rounds. Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard). Transfer fee of $500, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.
Class 7 All self-loading, semi-automatic rifles with a magazine capacity of 5 rounds or less. Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard). Transfer fee of $500, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.
Class 8 Pump-action or self-loading shotguns having a magazine capacity of 6 or more rounds. Restricted. The Military, Law Enforcement, Firearms Manufacturers, Farm Workers, Forest Rangers, Collectors and Clay Pigeon Shooters may own Class 7 firearms as determined by Congress. Transfer fee of $1000, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.
Class 9 All self-loading, semi-automatic rifles with a magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds. Restricted. The Military, Law Enforcement, Firearms Manufacturers, and Professional Shooters. Transfer fee of $1000, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.
Class 10 All handguns with a capacity above one shot. Not sure yet, but this needs to be so tightly regulated that there are no second chances.
Class GTFO Fully-automatic or worseτὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by wuapinmon View PostOk, so people keep asking me what I think is fair. I like this. It's my own work.
Class 1 Air Rifles and Paintball Guns, all kinds -- unrestricted
Class 2 Muzzle-loading Black Powder Rifles and Pistols -- unrestricted
Class 3 Shotguns. Breach-loading, single shot or double-barrel (side-by-side or over-under), no pump action or semi-automatic. --unrestricted.
Class 4 Rimfire rifles (not semi-automatic) -- unrestricted
Class 5 Single-shot Centerfire Rifles & Pistols. Breach-loading: Bolt-action, pump-action, and lever-action single-shot rifles and pistols. -- Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard).
Class 6 Pump-action or self-loading shotguns having a magazine capacity of 5 or fewer rounds. Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard). Transfer fee of $500, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.
Class 7 All self-loading, semi-automatic rifles with a magazine capacity of 5 rounds or less. Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard). Transfer fee of $500, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.
Class 8 Pump-action or self-loading shotguns having a magazine capacity of 6 or more rounds. Restricted. The Military, Law Enforcement, Firearms Manufacturers, Farm Workers, Forest Rangers, Collectors and Clay Pigeon Shooters may own Class 7 firearms as determined by Congress. Transfer fee of $1000, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.
Class 9 All self-loading, semi-automatic rifles with a magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds. Restricted. The Military, Law Enforcement, Firearms Manufacturers, and Professional Shooters. Transfer fee of $1000, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.
Class 10 All handguns with a capacity above one shot. Not sure yet, but this needs to be so tightly regulated that there are no second chances.
Class GTFO Fully-automatic or worse
Before it is a gun it is just a hunk of metal."If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
Comment
-
Originally posted by All-American View PostI can see the reasoning behind some of what you did, though I don't always agree with it. But what's the reasoning behind the transfer fees? And the amounts thereof?
However, as the day has gone on, I think that inheriting guns shouldn't be taxed to blood relations."Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by wuapinmon View PostClass 10 All handguns with a capacity above one shot. Not sure yet, but this needs to be so tightly regulated that there are no second chances.
Most of the mass shootings lately have involved AR-15 or equivalent. While the round has more energy, rifles do not have a significant advantage over pistols in close quarters combat. To me they're a wash. The weapon of choice is a submachine gun. So perhaps the people perpetrating these crimes are also drawn to assault rifles out of some mystique or an assumption that they're what is needed to carry out these crimes.
If all assault rifles were rounded up, what could someone do with pistols? Often these shooters were found with multiple rifles and other guns, only to have used one of them in the commission of their crime. Someone could easily strap on a dozen or so handguns, all locked and loaded with full magazines, easily concealed, and quickly and nimbly deployed in close quarters. You could make a case that the result would be even deadlier.
The shooter in Dallas was more of a sniper. Pistols would not be the weapon of choice, but any hunting rifle, even single-shot bolt-action would do. The Vegas shooter was shooting on a downward trajectory of about 1200 feet to an area target. This also is well within the range of handguns.
In short, the AR-15 has some sort of mystique around it that draws the attention of the press, the nation, and probably the perpetrators. And if that's the weapon of choice, maybe getting rid of them helps. But if someone is motivated to kill a lot of people, there will always be a way to do that. Leaving semi-automatic handguns accessible makes that very easy to accomplish.
Comment
Comment