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  • Originally posted by cowboy View Post
    Self-reflection is healthy. Good for you.
    i like and respect guns, especially in contexts where they have real utility (i.e., on a ranch). but there is a culture surrounding them that embraces the narrative that the u.s. is on the brink of social collapse and a lot of these nerds' fantasy is to be mad max in that scenario. for the vast majority of that crowd, it's an exercise in dress up--buy 5.11 and mil surplus stuff and plot how when shtf all the women in their neighborhood will flock to them for protection and repay with sexual favors. but for a small segment of the rambo wannabes, the combination of that culture with mental health issues for which they can't or won't seek help, social inadequacy, paranoid racism/bigotry, and a general fear of or antipathy for the future, is explosive. i don't think you can argue that the tactical mythos has not had some impact on every mass shooter since columbine. so, pretending that more guns and more militarization and more dress up is the solution seems off to me.
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

    Comment


    • lol. I heard NYPD's rate for hitting a target in a gunfight is like 18%. I know it's a sweet fantasy to have a school teacher dispatch a shooter like Jason Bourne, but that is just a really dumb idea.
      "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by old_gregg View Post
        i like and respect guns, especially in contexts where they have real utility (i.e., on a ranch). but there is a culture surrounding them that embraces the narrative that the u.s. is on the brink of social collapse and a lot of these nerds' fantasy is to be mad max in that scenario. for the vast majority of that crowd, it's an exercise in dress up--buy 5.11 and mil surplus stuff and plot how when shtf all the women in their neighborhood will flock to them for protection and repay with sexual favors. but for a small segment of the rambo wannabes, the combination of that culture with mental health issues for which they can't or won't seek help, social inadequacy, paranoid racism/bigotry, and a general fear of or antipathy for the future, is explosive. i don't think you can argue that the tactical mythos has not had some impact on every mass shooter since columbine. so, pretending that more guns and more militarization and more dress up is the solution seems off to me.
        These are good and valid points, especially the bolded ones. I think it comes down to two things: 1) How big is the segment of loons, and 2) How many of the people who would be given permission to carry would be part of that segment vs people who just feel safer armed. I don't know a lot of people who fit the nutcase group, but maybe it is larger than I think.

        Originally posted by Commando View Post
        lol. I heard NYPD's rate for hitting a target in a gunfight is like 18%. I know it's a sweet fantasy to have a school teacher dispatch a shooter like Jason Bourne, but that is just a really dumb idea.
        A lot of cops are pathetic marksmen. The guy who brought down the Texas church shooter shot the guy through an opening in his body armor, which is a very good shot. I'm just guessing, but I suspect a lot of gun owners shoot more often and are better marksmen than a lot of cops. Hell, JL can bring down a running deer at 400 yards and he's just a needle-neck wanker.
        sigpic
        "Outlined against a blue, gray
        October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
        Grantland Rice, 1924

        Comment


        • My only contribution to this thread is that when I see a random person walking around with a gun (NV is open carry), I do not feel safer. I feel the opposite.
          Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

          "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

          GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by cowboy View Post
            These are good and valid points, especially the bolded ones. I think it comes down to two things: 1) How big is the segment of loons, and 2) How many of the people who would be given permission to carry would be part of that segment vs people who just feel safer armed. I don't know a lot of people who fit the nutcase group, but maybe it is larger than I think.


            A lot of cops are pathetic marksmen. The guy who brought down the Texas church shooter shot the guy through an opening in his body armor, which is a very good shot. I'm just guessing, but I suspect a lot of gun owners shoot more often and are better marksmen than a lot of cops. Hell, JL can bring down a running deer at 400 yards and he's just a needle-neck wanker.
            After about 10-yr run of never missing a shot, including 3 deer on a dead run, I have missed a shot at a nice buck standing still in each of the last 2 years.
            "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
            "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
            "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
              After about 10-yr run of never missing a shot, including 3 deer on a dead run, I have missed a shot at a nice buck standing still in each of the last 2 years.
              must be the gun
              Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by old_gregg View Post
                must be the gun
                Exactly. Need to spend more time sighting in this coming fall.
                "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                Comment


                • Originally posted by old_gregg View Post
                  must be the gun
                  Probably would have hit it had he been wearing tactical gear and camo under his orange vest.
                  sigpic
                  "Outlined against a blue, gray
                  October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
                  Grantland Rice, 1924

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by old_gregg View Post
                    i like and respect guns, especially in contexts where they have real utility (i.e., on a ranch). but there is a culture surrounding them that embraces the narrative that the u.s. is on the brink of social collapse and a lot of these nerds' fantasy is to be mad max in that scenario. for the vast majority of that crowd, it's an exercise in dress up--buy 5.11 and mil surplus stuff and plot how when shtf all the women in their neighborhood will flock to them for protection and repay with sexual favors. but for a small segment of the rambo wannabes, the combination of that culture with mental health issues for which they can't or won't seek help, social inadequacy, paranoid racism/bigotry, and a general fear of or antipathy for the future, is explosive. i don't think you can argue that the tactical mythos has not had some impact on every mass shooter since columbine. so, pretending that more guns and more militarization and more dress up is the solution seems off to me.
                    What class did you go to? I've been to front sight a couple of times but never ran into anyone remotely resembling your hyperbolic characterizations. Everyone I met just wanted to get more comfortable behind the gun should the need, remote that it may be, ever arise. I've also gone to local shooting competitions and chatted with people there, and not one matches your description.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by cowboy View Post
                      Probably would have hit it had he been wearing tactical gear and camo under his orange vest.
                      LOL.

                      Maybe if JL had a bump stock on his weapon he would have got him... get it while you can:

                      Trump Moves to Regulate ‘Bump Stock’ Devices

                      President Trump ordered the Justice Department on Tuesday to propose regulations to ban so-called bump stocks, which can convert a semiautomatic gun into an automatic weapon like the one used last year in the massacre of concertgoers in Las Vegas.

                      Speaking at the White House days after a mass shooting at a Florida high school that killed 14 students and three teachers, Mr. Trump said that he had directed Attorney General Jeff Sessions to develop the regulations, saying that the step would help prevent future mass shootings.


                      “We cannot merely take actions that make us feel like we are making a difference,” Mr. Trump said at a ceremony as he conferred the medal of valor on public safety officials. “We must actually make a difference.”
                      [...]
                      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/u...mp-stocks.html
                      "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                      "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                      "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                      GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mtnbiker View Post
                        What class did you go to? I've been to front sight a couple of times but never ran into anyone remotely resembling your hyperbolic characterizations. Everyone I met just wanted to get more comfortable behind the gun should the need, remote that it may be, ever arise. I've also gone to local shooting competitions and chatted with people there, and not one matches your description.
                        In fact I've heard statements to the contrary-- there are police officers who are reassured to know that they are dealing with a concealed-carry permit holder because they know people with concealed carry permits tend to be more law-abiding than the general populace.

                        I admit I could be remembering this wrong, mostly because I seem to remember the statement from an episode of "This American Life" and it seems really unlikely that they would acknowledge that viewpoint.
                        τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by mtnbiker View Post
                          What class did you go to? I've been to front sight a couple of times but never ran into anyone remotely resembling your hyperbolic characterizations. Everyone I met just wanted to get more comfortable behind the gun should the need, remote that it may be, ever arise. I've also gone to local shooting competitions and chatted with people there, and not one matches your description.
                          Oh no. If you can't spot the rambo wannabes at a front sight class, you're the rambo wannabe.
                          Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

                          "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

                          GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by cowboy View Post
                            Probably would have hit it had he been wearing tactical gear and camo under his orange vest.
                            I was wearing camo! Muzzle loader hunt.
                            "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                            "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                            "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by mtnbiker View Post
                              What class did you go to? I've been to front sight a couple of times but never ran into anyone remotely resembling your hyperbolic characterizations. Everyone I met just wanted to get more comfortable behind the gun should the need, remote that it may be, ever arise. I've also gone to local shooting competitions and chatted with people there, and not one matches your description.
                              one where i was there for a couple of days. i was a guest of someone trying to get a couple of us to buy their diamond membership.
                              Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by falafel View Post
                                Oh no. If you can't spot the rambo wannabes at a front sight class, you're the rambo wannabe.
                                Oh, I suppose there are some of that type there, but I didn't meet any, or have any in the classes I took. But to say that everyone there meets that definition is ridiculous.

                                Actually, what really makes me mad is when people leave all their pop cans, shot-up tvs, target backers, and spent casings all over the place instead of picking up after themselves. Those are the people you should disparage. That gets people in power talking about closing public lands. I'm always toting other people's trigger trash out.

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