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Thread: Guns

  1. #1081
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  2. #1082
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    Check the dictionary, man.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  3. #1083

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Are you the lil guy with the hood?
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  4. #1084
    Senior Member Crockett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    You're the best, Uncle Ted. Keep it up.

  5. #1085

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    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  6. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post


    So we are up for armed guards and metal detectors at every school, then?
    τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

  7. #1087
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    It's time...



    to give our guns to Hilter.

    "It's all pretty simple. Guns are bad. Drumpf is bad. Two negatives makes a positive."
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  8. #1088
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    So we are up for armed guards and metal detectors at every school, then?
    Yep. And we’ve now come full circle to the proposal I made when this all started.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  9. #1089
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post

    Making drugs illegal has solved our drug problem... Therefore, making guns illegal will solve our gun problem!
    Yes, because the human body gets addicted to guns. Same fucking thing.
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  10. #1090
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    Yep. And we’ve now come full circle to the proposal I made when this all started.
    A really stupid, expensive proposal.
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  11. #1091
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    Yes, because the human body gets addicted to guns. Same fucking thing.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  12. #1092
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    I can't see this thread without this song instantly popping into my head.


    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  13. #1093
    Senior Member Crockett's Avatar
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  14. #1094
    Senior Member Crockett's Avatar
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  15. #1095
    Senior Member Crockett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    Because the framers believed a well regulated militia was necessary to the security of a free state. Just trying to help...

    Seriously, I'm curious how they would chime in on the issue today. I've read countless articles speculating on that point, but I've never been convinced by any of them (and that's on both sides of the argument). That said, I'd like to think they'd laugh at the Libertarian position that opposes any law restricting the ownership, manufacture, or sale of firearms.
    This country was established to escape tyranny and the founders included the 2d amendment to help prevent the rise of tyranny here. Also, they considered the right to defend yourself as part of natural law and codified it, in part, with the 2d amendment. So, any "reasonable" regulation needs to take that into account.

  16. #1096
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    I guess he didn't want to accidentally shoot an innocent bystander by engaging the shooter... he was concerned for the students' safety.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  17. #1097

  18. #1098

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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    agree, ted--all semi automatic rifles should be banned. handgun and shotgun magazines should be capped at 10 rounds. we should treat ammo purchases like we do gun purchases.
    I think this is reasonable, but I also think we're too far down the road to have it make a difference. It's all opinion, so I could be as wrong as I believe you are. I think there are just too many large capacity magazines and semi-automatic rifles in circulation to keep them out of the hands of bad people who want them. As long as bad people can get them, it's my opinion that good people should be able to have them as well. Specifically, I think of the Texas church shooting, where the shooter should not have legally been able to own an AR, and he was taken out by someone with a legal AR. Likewise, the Florida shooter should not have been able to legally own an AR.

    As someone in the minority who carries a handgun regularly, I'd prefer magazine caps be 15 rounds, since I carry for predators, and in a self-defense situation I'd like the 5 extra rounds if a bear is charging me or if I'm trying to protect a cow from a big cat. For the same reason, I think there is a use for semi-automatic rifles and I wouldn't like to see them banned completely, but those are all minor quibbles.

    Mostly, I think where we differ is the deterrent effect that arming competent people within schools will have. You seem to be in the camp that school shooting will continue at the same rate and that more handguns will turn them into an OK Corral. That may be true, but I'm more of the opinion that knowing there are many possible armed defenders, people will choose different targets and school shootings will slowly become something that happens once a decade, if that. The fact that shootings occur overwhelmingly in gun-free zones leads me to think that the possibility of armed resistance is a significant deterrent, but it's not something that can be proven, just like the OK Corral scenario is concerning but cannot be proven.

    One thing that I think nobody can dispute is the need to better track people who should not legally possess a gun but seem to easily acquire them. Also, the FL incident suggests that we are very poorly trained at identifying and eliminating threats, whether they're weilding an AR, shotgun, or a sword.

    "Outlined against a blue, gray
    October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
    Grantland Rice, 1924

  19. #1099
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post

    You have to wonder if the Coward county sheriff office is going to be sued over this... It would be a shame if Sheriff Israel had to give up his new patrol cruiser:

    1un0-DZ6DtxTq0OW3ZuCGRS7l67V7ztfQZJGjKQhDUc.jpg
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  20. #1100

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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
    The fact that shootings occur overwhelmingly in gun-free zones leads me to think that the possibility of armed resistance is a significant deterrent, but it's not something that can be proven, just like the OK Corral scenario is concerning but cannot be proven.
    I keep seeing this argument. Is this really a thing? Is there data for both gun-free and gun-friendly zones? Are there even gun-friendly school zones?

  21. #1101
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
    I think this is reasonable, but I also think we're too far down the road to have it make a difference. It's all opinion, so I could be as wrong as I believe you are. I think there are just too many large capacity magazines and semi-automatic rifles in circulation to keep them out of the hands of bad people who want them. As long as bad people can get them, it's my opinion that good people should be able to have them as well. Specifically, I think of the Texas church shooting, where the shooter should not have legally been able to own an AR, and he was taken out by someone with a legal AR. Likewise, the Florida shooter should not have been able to legally own an AR.

    As someone in the minority who carries a handgun regularly, I'd prefer magazine caps be 15 rounds, since I carry for predators, and in a self-defense situation I'd like the 5 extra rounds if a bear is charging me or if I'm trying to protect a cow from a big cat. For the same reason, I think there is a use for semi-automatic rifles and I wouldn't like to see them banned completely, but those are all minor quibbles.

    Mostly, I think where we differ is the deterrent effect that arming competent people within schools will have. You seem to be in the camp that school shooting will continue at the same rate and that more handguns will turn them into an OK Corral. That may be true, but I'm more of the opinion that knowing there are many possible armed defenders, people will choose different targets and school shootings will slowly become something that happens once a decade, if that. The fact that shootings occur overwhelmingly in gun-free zones leads me to think that the possibility of armed resistance is a significant deterrent, but it's not something that can be proven, just like the OK Corral scenario is concerning but cannot be proven.

    One thing that I think nobody can dispute is the need to better track people who should not legally possess a gun but seem to easily acquire them. Also, the FL incident suggests that we are very poorly trained at identifying and eliminating threats, whether they're weilding an AR, shotgun, or a sword.
    Ok, so people keep asking me what I think is fair. I like this. It's my own work.

    Class 1 Air Rifles and Paintball Guns, all kinds -- unrestricted

    Class 2 Muzzle-loading Black Powder Rifles and Pistols -- unrestricted

    Class 3 Shotguns. Breach-loading, single shot or double-barrel (side-by-side or over-under), no pump action or semi-automatic. --unrestricted.

    Class 4 Rimfire rifles (not semi-automatic) -- unrestricted

    Class 5 Single-shot Centerfire Rifles & Pistols. Breach-loading: Bolt-action, pump-action, and lever-action single-shot rifles and pistols. -- Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard).

    Class 6 Pump-action or self-loading shotguns having a magazine capacity of 5 or fewer rounds. Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard). Transfer fee of $500, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.

    Class 7 All self-loading, semi-automatic rifles with a magazine capacity of 5 rounds or less. Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard). Transfer fee of $500, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.

    Class 8 Pump-action or self-loading shotguns having a magazine capacity of 6 or more rounds. Restricted. The Military, Law Enforcement, Firearms Manufacturers, Farm Workers, Forest Rangers, Collectors and Clay Pigeon Shooters may own Class 7 firearms as determined by Congress. Transfer fee of $1000, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.

    Class 9 All self-loading, semi-automatic rifles with a magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds. Restricted. The Military, Law Enforcement, Firearms Manufacturers, and Professional Shooters. Transfer fee of $1000, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.

    Class 10 All handguns with a capacity above one shot. Not sure yet, but this needs to be so tightly regulated that there are no second chances.

    Class GTFO Fully-automatic or worse
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  22. #1102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    I keep seeing this argument. Is this really a thing? Is there data for both gun-free and gun-friendly zones? Are there even gun-friendly school zones?
    I don't know about gun-friendly school zones. I was talking about mass shootings in general. I do believe, however, that concealed carry is allowed in Utah schools. I haven't looked at the data, but I believe most shootings that have occurred in right-to-carry areas were cut short by someone who was armed. Other than a shooting in New York where cops shot a bunch of bystanders, I don't believe there has been much, if any collateral damage from the defenders.

    "Outlined against a blue, gray
    October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
    Grantland Rice, 1924

  23. #1103
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    Ok, so people keep asking me what I think is fair. I like this. It's my own work.

    Class 1 Air Rifles and Paintball Guns, all kinds -- unrestricted

    Class 2 Muzzle-loading Black Powder Rifles and Pistols -- unrestricted

    Class 3 Shotguns. Breach-loading, single shot or double-barrel (side-by-side or over-under), no pump action or semi-automatic. --unrestricted.

    Class 4 Rimfire rifles (not semi-automatic) -- unrestricted

    Class 5 Single-shot Centerfire Rifles & Pistols. Breach-loading: Bolt-action, pump-action, and lever-action single-shot rifles and pistols. -- Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard).

    Class 6 Pump-action or self-loading shotguns having a magazine capacity of 5 or fewer rounds. Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard). Transfer fee of $500, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.

    Class 7 All self-loading, semi-automatic rifles with a magazine capacity of 5 rounds or less. Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard). Transfer fee of $500, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.

    Class 8 Pump-action or self-loading shotguns having a magazine capacity of 6 or more rounds. Restricted. The Military, Law Enforcement, Firearms Manufacturers, Farm Workers, Forest Rangers, Collectors and Clay Pigeon Shooters may own Class 7 firearms as determined by Congress. Transfer fee of $1000, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.

    Class 9 All self-loading, semi-automatic rifles with a magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds. Restricted. The Military, Law Enforcement, Firearms Manufacturers, and Professional Shooters. Transfer fee of $1000, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.

    Class 10 All handguns with a capacity above one shot. Not sure yet, but this needs to be so tightly regulated that there are no second chances.

    Class GTFO Fully-automatic or worse
    I can see the reasoning behind some of what you did, though I don't always agree with it. But what's the reasoning behind the transfer fees? And the amounts thereof?
    τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

  24. #1104

  25. #1105
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    Ok, so people keep asking me what I think is fair. I like this. It's my own work.

    Class 1 Air Rifles and Paintball Guns, all kinds -- unrestricted

    Class 2 Muzzle-loading Black Powder Rifles and Pistols -- unrestricted

    Class 3 Shotguns. Breach-loading, single shot or double-barrel (side-by-side or over-under), no pump action or semi-automatic. --unrestricted.

    Class 4 Rimfire rifles (not semi-automatic) -- unrestricted

    Class 5 Single-shot Centerfire Rifles & Pistols. Breach-loading: Bolt-action, pump-action, and lever-action single-shot rifles and pistols. -- Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard).

    Class 6 Pump-action or self-loading shotguns having a magazine capacity of 5 or fewer rounds. Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard). Transfer fee of $500, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.

    Class 7 All self-loading, semi-automatic rifles with a magazine capacity of 5 rounds or less. Restricted to citizens of 21 years of age, any veteran of the US military, or any licensed hunter of any state of residence (subject to renewal and a federal hunting minimum standard). Transfer fee of $500, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.

    Class 8 Pump-action or self-loading shotguns having a magazine capacity of 6 or more rounds. Restricted. The Military, Law Enforcement, Firearms Manufacturers, Farm Workers, Forest Rangers, Collectors and Clay Pigeon Shooters may own Class 7 firearms as determined by Congress. Transfer fee of $1000, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.

    Class 9 All self-loading, semi-automatic rifles with a magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds. Restricted. The Military, Law Enforcement, Firearms Manufacturers, and Professional Shooters. Transfer fee of $1000, even if inherited, otherwise escheat.

    Class 10 All handguns with a capacity above one shot. Not sure yet, but this needs to be so tightly regulated that there are no second chances.

    Class GTFO Fully-automatic or worse
    What about the guns that my robot makes for me?... What class are those?



    Before it is a gun it is just a hunk of metal.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  26. #1106
    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    I can see the reasoning behind some of what you did, though I don't always agree with it. But what's the reasoning behind the transfer fees? And the amounts thereof?
    Wuap hates poor people.

  27. #1107
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    I can see the reasoning behind some of what you did, though I don't always agree with it. But what's the reasoning behind the transfer fees? And the amounts thereof?
    Well, I'd like to slow down the transfer of guns, and the guys in stores who go in and ask stuff like, "How many ARs do you have in stock? Five? I'll take them all." Shit like that.

    However, as the day has gone on, I think that inheriting guns shouldn't be taxed to blood relations.
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  28. #1108
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    Wuap hates poor people.
    Yes, I'm a regular Crane.
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  29. #1109

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    Class 10 All handguns with a capacity above one shot. Not sure yet, but this needs to be so tightly regulated that there are no second chances.
    This is really what you need to restrict and collect up if you're going to make a difference at all in the long run.

    Most of the mass shootings lately have involved AR-15 or equivalent. While the round has more energy, rifles do not have a significant advantage over pistols in close quarters combat. To me they're a wash. The weapon of choice is a submachine gun. So perhaps the people perpetrating these crimes are also drawn to assault rifles out of some mystique or an assumption that they're what is needed to carry out these crimes.

    If all assault rifles were rounded up, what could someone do with pistols? Often these shooters were found with multiple rifles and other guns, only to have used one of them in the commission of their crime. Someone could easily strap on a dozen or so handguns, all locked and loaded with full magazines, easily concealed, and quickly and nimbly deployed in close quarters. You could make a case that the result would be even deadlier.

    The shooter in Dallas was more of a sniper. Pistols would not be the weapon of choice, but any hunting rifle, even single-shot bolt-action would do. The Vegas shooter was shooting on a downward trajectory of about 1200 feet to an area target. This also is well within the range of handguns.

    In short, the AR-15 has some sort of mystique around it that draws the attention of the press, the nation, and probably the perpetrators. And if that's the weapon of choice, maybe getting rid of them helps. But if someone is motivated to kill a lot of people, there will always be a way to do that. Leaving semi-automatic handguns accessible makes that very easy to accomplish.

  30. #1110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Diddley View Post
    This also is well within the range of handguns.
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

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