Guns

[old_gregg]

Either their department training is lacking, or they froze. Sadly, you often don't know what someone is made of until they've proven their mettle in combat.

i sure as hell would not have gone in, but that's also why i'm not a cop

[Crockett]

You keep bringing this up, but I'm not sure it is making the point that you think it is. If you have 20 handguns shooting 1 person each, and one AR shooting 19 people in one spree, then yes, I guess you are right, handguns are responsible for more murders and gun crimes in this example.

I think I have only made this point once, BTW. In theory you could be right, but when you look at the details it's not what is happening. Mass shootings are actually relatively rare. At least for gun deaths, in 2015, 13,286 people were killed in the US by firearms and there were 372 mass shootings (4 or more deaths or injuries in a gun incident) killing 475 people (some of those were surely committed with handguns). More simply put, 3.6% of gun deaths were mass shootings in 2015 and not all of those would have been committed by rifle. These stats exclude suicides, so I think my original point holds: banning semi-auto rifles is not going to do much to reduce gun deaths and gun violence in the US. Banning semi-auto rifles is more of a superficial, emotional response to the problem rather than one designed to be effective.

[Crockett]

The Crock. Lol. That's perfect.

UT if that was intentional that makes me sad.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think I have only made this point once, BTW. In theory you could be right, but when you look at the details it's not what is happening. Mass shootings are actually relatively rare. At least for gun deaths, in 2015, 13,286 people were killed in the US by firearms and there were 372 mass shootings (4 or more deaths or injuries in a gun incident) killing 475 people (some of those were surely committed with handguns). More simply put, 3.6% of gun deaths were mass shootings in 2015 and not all of those would have been committed by rifle. These stats exclude suicides, so I think my original point holds: banning semi-auto rifles is not going to do much to reduce gun deaths and gun violence in the US. Banning semi-auto rifles is more of a superficial, emotional response to the problem rather than one designed to be effective.

Hey Crock, how many mass shooting deaths do we need before it is a problem? Please answer without pointing to a different problem.

[Crockett]

Hey Crock, how many mass shooting deaths do we need before it is a problem? Please answer without pointing to a different problem.

Read the last sentence again, JL. The one where I refer to "the problem."

But if you like it when I point to a different problem, then how about this one? Abortion. Hearing the militant left shriek about the right to rip apart a fetus and crush its head and then suddenly caring about the lives of children so much that we need major gun control seems ... um ... let's call it cognitively dissonant.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Read the last sentence again, JL. The one where I refer to "the problem."

But if you like it when I point to a different problem, then how about this one? Abortion. Hearing the militant left shriek about the right to rip apart a fetus and crush its head and then suddenly caring about the lives of children so much that we need major gun control seems ... um ... let's call it cognitively dissonant.

Appeal to hypocrisy.

Now let’s see you answer the question without employing a logical fallacy.

[Northwestcoug]

Read the last sentence again, JL. The one where I refer to "the problem."

But if you like it when I point to a different problem, then how about this one? Abortion. Hearing the militant left shriek about the right to rip apart a fetus and crush its head and then suddenly caring about the lives of children so much that we need major gun control seems ... um ... let's call it cognitively dissonant.

Yikes.

If only you could employ similar graphic language to school children being killed, then maybe we could play your moral equivalence game.

[Topper]

Read the last sentence again, JL. The one where I refer to "the problem."

But if you like it when I point to a different problem, then how about this one? Abortion. Hearing the militant left shriek about the right to rip apart a fetus and crush its head and then suddenly caring about the lives of children so much that we need major gun control seems ... um ... let's call it cognitively dissonant.

The US is a statistical anomaly in the modern world for mass killings. It is a problem of twofold. First, it is a bonfire for those who oppose guns. And conspicuously featured is the beloved or hated AR-15. Second, it should worry any caring human being that morons are using these firearms illegally on a repeated basis. So it is a problem of perception and it is an actual problem that needs to be answered effectively somehow. Whoever controls the debate usually wins it.

Now, there is not a logical consistency in people's favorite vices or devices. Alcohol, through drunk driving and diseases, kills far more people than guns, but not usually as graphically. Guns are more graphic. So the left can ignore the one while scream about the other.

But there is a problem and maybe a mosaic of solutions is the answer to this troubling problem. Advocates for the Second Amendment need to do more than merely exclaim there is not problem.

[Uncle Ted]

UT if that was intentional that makes me sad.

What's wrong with calling you the Crock?

[frank ryan]

Read the last sentence again, JL. The one where I refer to "the problem."

But if you like it when I point to a different problem, then how about this one? Abortion. Hearing the militant left shriek about the right to rip apart a fetus and crush its head and then suddenly caring about the lives of children so much that we need major gun control seems ... um ... let's call it cognitively dissonant.

If you folks on the right cared so much about abortion, you'd stop patting yourselves on the back for gutting the social safety net at every turn, which disproportionately affects single women.

Anyway, back to guns!

[old_gregg]

Read the last sentence again, JL. The one where I refer to "the problem."

But if you like it when I point to a different problem, then how about this one? Abortion. Hearing the militant left shriek about the right to rip apart a fetus and crush its head and then suddenly caring about the lives of children so much that we need major gun control seems ... um ... let's call it cognitively dissonant.

and there we go. no more definitional circlejerk and no more frothy mouthed ranting about generalizations and caricatures. what utility do semiautomatic rifles have in 2018 america?

[Uncle Ted]

Hey Crock, how many mass shooting deaths do we need before it is a problem? Please answer without pointing to a different problem.

Yes, you need to call your congressman now and demand the repeal of the 2nd amendment immediately or you are not voting for them again! Our founding fathers didn't think of this when they wrote it... or maybe they did:

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Making drugs illegal has solved our drug problem... Therefore, making guns illegal will solve our gun problem!

[Crockett]

Appeal to hypocrisy.

Now let’s see you answer the question without employing a logical fallacy.

Stop being so obtuse. I already answered the question: it's a serious problem. We do need to do something about it, but I dislike the Kabuki theater and emotional bullying going on. I don't think major gun control / confiscation is the answer. I am fine with some reasonable regulations and restrictions that prevent guns getting into the wrong hands. I want to do things that will be effective in protecting schools and children, while protecting our civil right.

[Uncle Ted]

and there we go. no more definitional circlejerk and no more frothy mouthed ranting about generalizations and caricatures. what utility do semiautomatic rifles have in 2018 america?

Semiautomatic guns are great for using to clean up around the house...

What utility do single-shot muzzleloaders have in 2018 america? Maybe we should ban them first.

[frank ryan]

and there we go. no more definitional circlejerk and no more frothy mouthed ranting about generalizations and caricatures. what utility do semiautomatic rifles have in 2018 america?

We can use them to intimidate ladies who go into Planned Parenthoods!