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Thread: Utah Football: 2013 The Crusade for Redemption

  1. #61
    RIP CUF Jarid in Cedar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Utah Football: 2013 The Crusade for Redemption

    Quote Originally Posted by kccougar View Post
    I'd like to read your take as the conventional wisdom has always been that the 4-3 was well suited to Utah and their recruiting of big poly linemen.
    Because i think it maximizes that advantage. The trouble we have in the Pac-12 as a 4-3 team is recruiting defensive ends. The ones we can get are, either big enough to stop the run, but not fast enough to really rush the passer, or fast enough to rush the passer but not big enough to hold the edge on the run. Then in s4-3, you need to have two of them that can do both. Typically, we have one prototypical end and one that is either too slow our too small. Last year, Joe Kruger was adequate at both, but Nate was too small, and we got abused by teams running of tackle to his side.

    Now as far as the 3-4, we can now insert 3 poly lineman(instead of 2) who have good enough size to stuff the run and the ability to contain 2 lineman at the point of attack. Which will allow a faster olb, like Reilly or Nate to rush the passer unchecked. Also allow the linebackers to run clear to the rushing lanes against the spread. It also protects us from a lack of spread at the edge by stretching the field more laterally, giving the safeties more time to fill.
    "The first thing I learned upon becoming a head coach after fifteen years as an assistant was the enormous difference between making a suggestion and making a decision."

    "They talk about the economy this year. Hey, my hairline is in recession, my waistline is in inflation. Altogether, I'm in a depression."

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  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarid in Cedar View Post
    Because i think it maximizes that advantage. The trouble we have in the Pac-12 as a 4-3 team is recruiting defensive ends. The ones we can get are, either big enough to stop the run, but not fast enough to really rush the passer, or fast enough to rush the passer but not big enough to hold the edge on the run. Then in s4-3, you need to have two of them that can do both. Typically, we have one prototypical end and one that is either too slow our too small. Last year, Joe Kruger was adequate at both, but Nate was too small, and we got abused by teams running of tackle to his side.

    Now as far as the 3-4, we can now insert 3 poly lineman(instead of 2) who have good enough size to stuff the run and the ability to contain 2 lineman at the point of attack. Which will allow a faster olb, like Reilly or Nate to rush the passer unchecked. Also allow the linebackers to run clear to the rushing lanes against the spread. It also protects us from a lack of spread at the edge by stretching the field more laterally, giving the safeties more time to fill.
    Thanks. This is an interesting take. It seems like teams that run the 3-4 have a bevy of solid linebackers--a position that has not been well recruited at Utah recently. Perhaps what you are saying is that players that we currently slot at DE (Fakahafua) will now be "LBs" in the 3-4. Also, it seemed to me that Utah was very successful recruiting standard DEs this round (Tevi, Vaenuku but less so with LBs (Mokofisi).

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Thanks. This is an interesting take. It seems like teams that run the 3-4 have a bevy of solid linebackers--a position that has not been well recruited at Utah recently. Perhaps what you are saying is that players that we currently slot at DE (Fakahafua) will now be "LBs" in the 3-4. Also, it seemed to me that Utah was very successful recruiting standard DEs this round (Tevi, Vaenuku but less so with LBs (Mokofisi).
    My concern there would be speed.
    "It's devastating, because we lost to a team that's not even in the Pac-12. To lose to Utah State is horrible." - John White IV

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    Beloved ALUF LA Ute's Avatar
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    The latest word I've seen is that this is definitely not happening (a change to a 3-4). I wish I could recall where I saw it, but it was convincing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The latest word I've seen is that this is definitely not happening (a change to a 3-4). I wish I could recall where I saw it, but it was convincing.
    I know that Dan Sorensen was pretty adamant about it not happening on Twitter.

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    RIP CUF Jarid in Cedar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarid in Cedar View Post
    Because i think it maximizes that advantage. The trouble we have in the Pac-12 as a 4-3 team is recruiting defensive ends. The ones we can get are, either big enough to stop the run, but not fast enough to really rush the passer, or fast enough to rush the passer but not big enough to hold the edge on the run. Then in s4-3, you need to have two of them that can do both. Typically, we have one prototypical end and one that is either too slow our too small. Last year, Joe Kruger was adequate at both, but Nate was too small, and we got abused by teams running of tackle to his side.

    Now as far as the 3-4, we can now insert 3 poly lineman(instead of 2) who have good enough size to stuff the run and the ability to contain 2 lineman at the point of attack. Which will allow a faster olb, like Reilly or Nate to rush the passer unchecked. Also allow the linebackers to run clear to the rushing lanes against the spread. It also protects us from a lack of spread at the edge by stretching the field more laterally, giving the safeties more time to fill.
    I am feeling a little prophetic:

    Whittingham: "The 4-3 defense is becoming a dinosaur. It's extinct."
    "The first thing I learned upon becoming a head coach after fifteen years as an assistant was the enormous difference between making a suggestion and making a decision."

    "They talk about the economy this year. Hey, my hairline is in recession, my waistline is in inflation. Altogether, I'm in a depression."

    "I like to bike. I could beat Lance Armstrong, only because he couldn't pass me if he was behind me."

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    Members Only Dwight Schr-ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarid in Cedar View Post
    I am feeling a little prophetic:
    But a flawed prophet.

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    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    This morning on the radio - PK and DJ were talking about the PAC media day, expected rankings to begin the season, etc.

    DJ says that after last year - if U fans were offered a guaranteed 7-5 season with a chance for 8 wins in the bowl game, they take it. PK disagreed - of course.

    But it got me thinking. I never agree with these ideas - because I like the idea that (theoretically, at least) there is the potential to win every game.

    But it did get me thinking. So what do you say, Ute fans...would you take a guaranteed 7-5 season - or do you hold out for much better and potentially worse as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    This morning on the radio - PK and DJ were talking about the PAC media day, expected rankings to begin the season, etc.

    DJ says that after last year - if U fans were offered a guaranteed 7-5 season with a chance for 8 wins in the bowl game, they take it. PK disagreed - of course.

    But it got me thinking. I never agree with these ideas - because I like the idea that (theoretically, at least) there is the potential to win every game.

    But it did get me thinking. So what do you say, Ute fans...would you take a guaranteed 7-5 season - or do you hold out for much better and potentially worse as well.
    I'm no Utah fan but you'd have to take that record. 2 games over .500 guaranteed. That is something to build on. Because I think they go 5-7 at best. They could lose 8 in a row starting at home against Oregon State.
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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoylenOver View Post
    Joe Kruger declares early for the draft.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    does he even get drafted? Free agent?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarid in Cedar View Post
    3-4th round. Size and pedigree go a long ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    I would have guessed later rounds (6-7).
    Who's the prophet now?

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    RIP CUF Jarid in Cedar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Who's the prophet now?
    I I am happy to share the stage.
    "The first thing I learned upon becoming a head coach after fifteen years as an assistant was the enormous difference between making a suggestion and making a decision."

    "They talk about the economy this year. Hey, my hairline is in recession, my waistline is in inflation. Altogether, I'm in a depression."

    "I like to bike. I could beat Lance Armstrong, only because he couldn't pass me if he was behind me."

    -Rick Majerus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    This morning on the radio - PK and DJ were talking about the PAC media day, expected rankings to begin the season, etc.

    DJ says that after last year - if U fans were offered a guaranteed 7-5 season with a chance for 8 wins in the bowl game, they take it. PK disagreed - of course.

    But it got me thinking. I never agree with these ideas - because I like the idea that (theoretically, at least) there is the potential to win every game.

    But it did get me thinking. So what do you say, Ute fans...would you take a guaranteed 7-5 season - or do you hold out for much better and potentially worse as well.
    I'd take it. In a year where we have a young qb, unproven running backs, not much experience in our wr, a hopeful offensive line, added to the anemic offense that we've had the last few years PLUS new d-linemen replacing Star, linebackers that left much to be desired last year, and inexperience at the corner spots there's too much potential for disaster this year. Five loses means that we likely lose to Oregon and Stanford (two teams I don't think we beat under any circumstance), probably ASU since we've had zero answer for their offense thus far, and two of USC, Oregon State, BYU, and UCLA. I would take that. Seven wins means that Travis Wilson is able to throw the ball pretty well, our still pretty young OL is able to protect and even get some push for a ground game, our LB aren't a liability and our CB spots are pretty solid into the future. That would get me feeling pretty positive about 2014.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    I'm no Utah fan but you'd have to take that record. 2 games over .500 guaranteed. That is something to build on. Because I think they go 5-7 at best. They could lose 8 in a row starting at home against Oregon State.
    So the over/under for season wins for the Utes is 5.5 (I don't want to make very much of these early (off shore lines) although they are probably still the best estimates). So that is a bit more optimistic than your views. With some back of the envelope modeling, that puts the probability of winning 7 or more at less than 30% and the probability of winning 5 or less at essentially 50%. Still, these betting lines do agree with your conclusions. A 7-5 would be a pretty nice season outcome for Utah.
    Last edited by pelagius; 07-25-2013 at 10:46 AM.

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    Outsider looking in Blueintheface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarid in Cedar View Post
    I am feeling a little prophetic:
    Now if Utah could just get some good linebackers...

    Sorry, but for a team built around a solid defense front and speed in the secondary, I have never figured out why Utah has such mediocre linebackers (20th Century notwithstanding).
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