Wear Pants to Church Day

[byu71]

I get that. If it's not working for you, just leave. But I think most people who rail against the church still value it to one degree or another. They would like to feel more comfortable attending, and that's why they clamor for change.

I have nothing against members speaking up and voicing their opinions. I have a lot of issues with "church" policies and have expressed them many times.

Personally though, I can't see myself getting so worked up over it that I would lead a movement. Maybe the need to feel "comfortable" at church isn't that big an issue for me and why for those who do, I see it as a "cultural" need rather than a "spiritual" need.

Napper, you may want to again clarify what I am saying if someone insuates I am ignorant again.

[PaloAltoCougar]

It is not about the pants. That is just the chosen symbol.

Yeah, I just don't see it as much of a symbol, given its commonality. They should wear white shirts.

[UtahDan]

Is activism really the best or most appropriate way to go about doing this? It's a church, not a democracy or a social club.

There are all sorts of things about church that bother (and sometimes negatively impact) me, but how I handle it is by choosing not to get that worked up about it.

I have no dog in the fight, but it seems like since women don't have anyone to speak on their behalf in any of the counsels of the church where decisions get made that this is all they can do. It may well be that the brethren would readily adopt some of the very modest things some of these women are proposing but no one has had the chance to make the case to them.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Is activism really the best or most appropriate way to go about doing this? It's a church, not a democracy or a social club.

There are all sorts of things about church that bother (and sometimes negatively impact) me, but how I handle it is by choosing not to get that worked up about it.

What you are really saying here is that members should just shut up and not question anything. Even in a benign and friendly manner.

Common consent is officially dead in the church.

[Pheidippides]

Yeah, I just don't see it as much of a symbol, given its commonality. They should wear white shirts.

I don't know if we necessarily agree on the commonality. My wife will turn heads on Sunday in her pantsuit (my 11 year old even more so if she participates). My wife was already told (as a generic matter - not her specifically) that pantsuits were inappropriate for women who work in the Young Women (which she does).

[Applejack]

Yeah, I just don't see it as much of a symbol, given its commonality. They should wear white shirts.

Is it really that common in your ward? I have seen various female legged outfits in various wards over the years, but it still is very uncommon, from my vantage point. Also, usually, in my experience, the pants-wearer is a relatively new convert.

But maybe I just need to start paying attention to the new fashions!

[DrumNFeather]

I have no dog in the fight, but it seems like since women don't have anyone to speak on their behalf in any of the counsels of the church where decisions get made that this is all they can do. It may well be that the brethren would readily adopt some of the very modest things some of these women are proposing but no one has had the chance to make the case to them.

Sure you do. It's good for MoExpositer business.

[byu71]

I don't know if we necessarily agree on the commonality. My wife will turn heads on Sunday in her pantsuit (my 11 year old even more so if she participates). My wife was already told (as a generic matter - not her specifically) that pantsuits were inappropriate for women who work in the Young Women (which she does).

I know women and I guess some men just can't do what I would have done. I would have in a very kind and sincere voice told whoever told her that to F-off. They are welcome to their opinions, but they have no standing to force them upon me.

[Indy Coug]

I have no dog in the fight, but it seems like since women don't have anyone to speak on their behalf in any of the counsels of the church where decisions get made that this is all they can do. It may well be that the brethren would readily adopt some of the very modest things some of these women are proposing but no one has had the chance to make the case to them.

That simply isn't true.

[Indy Coug]

What you are really saying here is that members should just shut up and not question anything. Even in a benign and friendly manner.

Common consent is officially dead in the church.

Common consent <> common dissent

[Pheidippides]

That simply isn't true.

Let me know the next time a women is in PEC or on the High Council. TIA.

[byu71]

I have no dog in the fight, but it seems like since women don't have anyone to speak on their behalf in any of the counsels of the church where decisions get made that this is all they can do. It may well be that the brethren would readily adopt some of the very modest things some of these women are proposing but no one has had the chance to make the case to them.

I am not a follower of the women's issues. Enlighten me as to a few of the modest things being proposed or asked for.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Common consent is alive!

I'll be on the stand in a purple shirt.

[Goatnapper'96]

I have nothing against members speaking up and voicing their opinions. I have a lot of issues with "church" policies and have expressed them many times.

Personally though, I can't see myself getting so worked up over it that I would lead a movement. Maybe the need to feel "comfortable" at church isn't that big an issue for me and why for those who do, I see it as a "cultural" need rather than a "spiritual" need.

Napper, you may want to again clarify what I am saying if someone insuates I am ignorant again.

Part of the effort to make oneself "feel comfortable" is purposely designed to make others "feel uncomfortable" so that everyone is aware of how "uncomfortable" the now "feeling comfortable" folks are/were.

I think '71 thinks that one can basically ignore the Church's policies and still have women with significant power/control without having to make it obvious you don't agree with it by attempting to draw attention to yourself.

FTR, I admit I don't care a great deal about this and in my opinion there are things I think the LDS Church could do better wrt women. Not that it will make women's nipples hard to be all included but I think that the patriarchial order places institutional limitations on some capacity of ministering. To be honest that concerns me more than how comfortable some sweaty femma natzee feels at LDS worship services. However, as I often say I am conservative and by that I mean I am not inherently wired to question societal values and society does get things wrong on occasion. So have at you sweaty femma natzees and you sweaty femma natzee lovers! Take back the Sacrament Meeting!

[Indy Coug]

Let me know the next time a women is in PEC or on the High Council. TIA.

The RS president attends PEC every single week. Then there's this whole Ward Council thing that happens bi-weekly.