Originally posted by Northwestcoug
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Originally posted by LA Ute View PostI still have a copy that I found among some old boxes of stuff in our ward building. It seems to me he expressed approval of using violence to defend oneself against sexual advances if necessary, which is a little different from trying "to convert" someone. But still....
I'll see if I can find it.
Short of attempted rape (which I think would be extraordinarily rare between two missionaries), do you think it is appropriate to respond to a sexual advance with violence? Seriously? That missionary experienced guilt for good reason. And there is something extremely disconcerting about an apostle implying that he would have liked to have gotten in a few punches himself had he been given the chance.
It seems that the implicit message here is that those queers are trying to recruit the rest of us to their perverted state so we need to do everything we can to stop them. I don't recall seeing this response suggested for the heterosexual scenario."There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
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Originally posted by LA Ute View PostI didn't hear that talk, nor did I ever read it. My bad, I guess. But I was looking not for a talk by one GA, but for an official position by the church on the matter that has now changed. I don't doubt that there is one, but I just don't know. It may be that the church heirarchy were just as clueless about the nature of gayness as most people have been, over the years.Dio perdona tante cose per un’opera di misericordia
God forgives many things for an act of mercyAlessandro Manzoni
Knock it off. This board has enough problems without a dose of middle-age lechery.
pelagius
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Originally posted by pellegrino View PostLA Ute, you're a good man, and I like you, but responses like this and the one that preceded it . . .
Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostA distinction without much of a difference.
Short of attempted rape (which I think would be extraordinarily rare between two missionaries), do you think it is appropriate to respond to a sexual advance with violence? Seriously? That missionary experienced guilt for good reason. And there is something extremely disconcerting about an apostle implying that he would have liked to have gotten in a few punches himself had he been given the chance.
It seems that the implicit message here is that those queers are trying to recruit the rest of us to their perverted state so we need to do everything we can to stop them. I don't recall seeing this response suggested for the heterosexual scenario.Last edited by LA Ute; 12-07-2012, 07:23 AM.“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Originally posted by LA Ute View PostYou said BKP "advocated violence against gays if they try to convert you." That's not a fair characterization of what he said. I'm no fan of many of BKP's statements but it's important to be intellectually honest in describing them.
There are some men who entice young men to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.
On the other hand, maybe he only meant to be speaking to closeted gay mormons and was actually advocating gay-on-gay violence."There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
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Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostHow is it not fair? Go back and read the first line of the quote:
He is very clearly saying that gays recruit people to join them in gay sex and when they try to recruit you, you should beat the shit out of them.
On the other hand, maybe he only meant to be speaking to closeted gay mormons and was actually advocating gay-on-gay violence.“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostHe is very clearly saying that gays recruit people to join them in gay sex and when they try to recruit you, you should beat the shit out of them.
On the other hand, maybe he only meant to be speaking to closeted gay mormons and was actually advocating gay-on-gay violence.
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Originally posted by Indy Coug View PostYou get that out of "vigorously resist"? Bullshit. Stop straining so hard.
http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showpo...0&postcount=45"There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
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There are some men who entice young women to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.
While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said she had something to confess. I was very worried because she just could not get herself to tell me what she had done.
After patient encouragement she finally blurted out, "I hit my district leader."
"Oh, is that all," I said in great relief.
"But I floored him," she said.
After learning a little more, my response was "Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way"
I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself.
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Originally posted by Tone Loc View PostThere are some men who entice young women to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.
While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said she had something to confess. I was very worried because she just could not get herself to tell me what she had done.
After patient encouragement she finally blurted out, "I hit my district leader."
"Oh, is that all," I said in great relief.
"But I floored him," she said.
After learning a little more, my response was "Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way"
I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself."Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.
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I appreciate the efforts of the LDS church in creating the website you mentioned. Many of my Gay friends are a little offended by the site, but i'm not bothered in the least by it. After all...I view it, in part, as an effort to assure members that those of us that are Gay deserve love and respect.
My family has not reacted well to my coming out, but I try to give them a pass on that since it clearly is not an easy thing to accept. most of them will have absolutely nothing to do with me, but a few are starting to come around a little. I applaud the LDS church for their efforts, and Hope it will help the healing process to continue in my family.
While I have chosen to resign my membership, I still respect the church and have no desire to tear it down or criticize the decisions made by the leaders too much. i'm very grateful that the church has made positive adjustments in their approach with the Gay issue.
There is one thing I wish beyond anything they would do, but i'm not holding my breath for it to happen. Its not for me, but doing this one thing might really help my ex wife, and the many other Ex wives in the church. Hopefully one day they will see the need, but i'm happy they are making an effort.
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Originally posted by Sullyute View PostSounds like advice that I would give my daughter."The mind is not a boomerang. If you throw it too far it will not come back." ~ Tom McGuane
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Originally posted by Tone Loc View PostThere are some men who entice young women to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.
While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said she had something to confess. I was very worried because she just could not get herself to tell me what she had done.
After patient encouragement she finally blurted out, "I hit my district leader."
"Oh, is that all," I said in great relief.
"But I floored him," she said.
After learning a little more, my response was "Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way"
I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself.“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Being together 24/7, eating together, shopping together, sharing details of your lives together, sharing your darkest fears and your greatest aspirations, sleeping together wearing exotic underwear ..... SOMETHING'S GOTTA GIVE!
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Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostA few years prior and there is no way that part would have been redacted. In fact, BKP published a pamphlet (I think it was called "For Young Men Only") where be advocated violence against gays if they try to convert you. My mother gave me a copy as a youth. It was in circulation for many years.
http://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared...g.pdf?lang=eng
I recall getting a copy from my mother and later laughing out loud the part about having wet dreams. Something about your body being a factory and having to release some of its product."If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
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