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Thread: New LDS Church Website: Mormons and Gays

  1. #691

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    The rights to associate, speak freely and practice your religion spill over substantially into one another. Encroachments on these freedoms will rarely, if ever, come from direct curtailments. Instead, they will come from incremental steps in decisions that cumulatively creep toward an undesirable result. When they come for me, boiling frog, slippery slope and all that. As a result, I think churches and other organizations and persons SHOULD take an interest in these interrelated arguments. Who better to raise awareness of how such cases might affect religious freedoms down the road than churches? I really don't understand what it means to 'cheapen' the right in this context.
    This is really tough. On one side, I agree, and I can see how not fighting inconsequential things ten steps away from the important things, could potentially make it easier for you to lose the important things 10 steps later. But on the other side, you become an asshole when you fight this way.

  2. #692

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    i suspect funk would be less thrilled with a bakery owned by a guy person being forced to bake a cake for the westboro baptist church celebrating the murder of a prominent lgbt advocate
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  3. #693

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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    i suspect funk would be less thrilled with a bakery owned by a guy person being forced to bake a cake for the westboro baptist church celebrating the murder of a prominent lgbt advocate
    You are right I would be less thrilled about that. I also sincerely doubt that scenario falls under the Colorado anti-discrimination statute.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
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  4. #694

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    You are right I would be less thrilled about that. I also sincerely doubt that scenario falls under the Colorado anti-discrimination statute.
    why
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  5. #695
    a day late/a dollar short Sullyute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Behold, whosoever compelleth thee to bake a gay wedding cake, bake for him two.

    Pretty sure Jesus said that.
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  6. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Behold, whosoever compelleth thee to bake a gay wedding cake, bake for him two.

    Pretty sure Jesus said that.


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    You would say that everyone should be treated with kindness and respect, even those that maybe haven't earned it or have done something that one vehemently disagrees with? Interesting take.
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  7. #697
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Behold, whosoever compelleth thee to bake a gay wedding cake, bake for him two.

    Pretty sure Jesus said that.
    Who needs two wedding cakes (at least, at the same time)? I'm starting to question whether Jesus really said that.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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  8. #698

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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    kind of a silly point on your part mr funk. a wedding cake is not a public accommodation and is pretty clearly different from true public accommodations
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/12181

    see 7 E

    I ain't no Lawyer but this was one of the first links that came up in a "what is a public accommodation" google search. I guess this is under the disabilities act. Is the definition different as it relates to anti discrimination laws?
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  9. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    You would say that everyone should be treated with kindness and respect, even those that maybe haven't earned it or have done something that one vehemently disagrees with? Interesting take.
    It's radical!
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  10. #700
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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Who needs two wedding cakes (at least, at the same time)? I'm starting to question whether Jesus really said that.
    Nowadays they do a grooms cake.


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  11. #701
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flystripper View Post
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/12181

    see 7 E

    I ain't no Lawyer but this was one of the first links that came up in a "what is a public accommodation" google search. I guess this is under the disabilities act. Is the definition different as it relates to anti discrimination laws?
    Here's the code provision you're looking for:

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/2000a

    Prohibition against discrimination or segregation in places of public accommodation

    (a) Equal access
    All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.

    (b) Establishments affecting interstate commerce or supported in their activities by State action as places of public accommodation; lodgings; facilities principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises; gasoline stations; places of exhibition or entertainment; other covered establishmentsEach of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this subchapter if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action:
    (1) any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence;
    (2) any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises, including, but not limited to, any such facility located on the premises of any retail establishment; or any gasoline station;
    (3) any motion picture house, theater, concert hall, sports arena, stadium or other place of exhibition or entertainment; and
    (4) any establishment (A)(i) which is physically located within the premises of any establishment otherwise covered by this subsection, or (ii) within the premises of which is physically located any such covered establishment, and (B) which holds itself out as serving patrons of such covered establishment.
    No bakeries in there, unless you are having your wedding inside the bakery, I guess.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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  12. #702

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Here's the code provision you're looking for:

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/2000a



    No bakeries in there, unless you are having your wedding inside the bakery, I guess.
    I said i wasn't a lawyer! Thank you sir. So disabled guy gets his cake from a hitler youth graduate, but gay dude gets no cake from a westboro baptist member. Got it.
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  13. #703

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    This guy was a missionary in my ward a while back. I honestly didn't recognize him because he looks so much less gay than he did as a missionary (seriously). Anyway, pretty funny stuff. And I'm encouraged by the way my former bishop (currently the SP in an adjacent stake) has reached out to him in response to the article. Pretty funny stuff, at any rate.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b05fa16286be0f
    Last edited by Donuthole; 10-13-2017 at 08:49 AM.
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  14. #704

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    This guy was a missionary in my ward a while back. I honestly didn't recognize him because he looks so much less gay than he did as a missionary (seriously). Anyway, pretty funny stuff. And I'm encouraged by the way my former bishop (currently the SP in an adjacent stake) has reached out to him in response to the article. Pretty funny stuff, at any rate.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b05fa16286be0f
    Uh-oh, Moliere. Is this why you are refusing a stake calling?

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  15. #705
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    This guy was a missionary in my ward a while back. I honestly didn't recognize him because he looks so much less gay than he did as a missionary (seriously). Anyway, pretty funny stuff. And I'm encouraged by the way my former bishop (currently the SP in an adjacent stake) has reached out to him in response to the article. Pretty funny stuff, at any rate.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b05fa16286be0f
    That was good.
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  16. #706
    Senior Member SteelBlue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    This guy was a missionary in my ward a while back. I honestly didn't recognize him because he looks so much less gay than he did as a missionary (seriously). Anyway, pretty funny stuff. And I'm encouraged by the way my former bishop (currently the SP in an adjacent stake) has reached out to him in response to the article. Pretty funny stuff, at any rate.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b05fa16286be0f
    That was great. I bet dinner appointments with that guy would have been hilarious.

  17. #707
    Semper infra dignitatem PaloAltoCougar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    This guy was a missionary in my ward a while back. I honestly didn't recognize him because he looks so much less gay than he did as a missionary (seriously). Anyway, pretty funny stuff. And I'm encouraged by the way my former bishop (currently the SP in an adjacent stake) has reached out to him in response to the article. Pretty funny stuff, at any rate.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b05fa16286be0f
    Really good. Is Peacock his real last name? Awesome.

  18. #708
    Known Heterosexual RC Vikings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    This guy was a missionary in my ward a while back. I honestly didn't recognize him because he looks so much less gay than he did as a missionary (seriously). Anyway, pretty funny stuff. And I'm encouraged by the way my former bishop (currently the SP in an adjacent stake) has reached out to him in response to the article. Pretty funny stuff, at any rate.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b05fa16286be0f
    "For it is not Sheri Dew who asked to be the poster bachelor for a generation of gay men." I thought that was funny.

  19. #709

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    That was hilarious. His other article about not attending BYU graduation is less funny, but every bit worth the read as well.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0537abd957406
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
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  20. #710
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    The new website is relatively clean, but I noticed these pictures of the leaders of the LDS Church. It is remarkable how white the leadership is. Only Garrett Gong is non-white. Small wonder LDS have no understanding of BLM or other racial issues.

    http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/leader...-organization/
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  21. #711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    The new website is relatively clean, but I noticed these pictures of the leaders of the LDS Church. It is remarkable how white the leadership is. Only Garrett Gong is non-white. Small wonder LDS have no understanding of BLM or other racial issues.

    http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/leader...-organization/
    Without getting into too much debate as to culture verses race...

    Elder Soares was born in Brazil and Elder Uceda was born in Peru.

    But yeah...there's a lot of white faces on that page.
    Last edited by Eddie; 01-09-2018 at 11:05 AM.

  22. #712
    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    So -

    In our ward we have a kid who is now a Teacher. His parents stopped coming to church when he was in primary, and while he still participated in Cub Scouts, etc, they didn't really attend church. When he turned 8, his parents (who still weren't attending) told the bishop that they weren't interested in the boy getting baptized. They wanted to wait for him to decide for himself about being baptized when he was older.

    When this kid was 12, they decided it was OK for him to listen to the missionaries if he wanted to. He ended up beginning to attend church and was ultimately baptized and has since been ordained. He has a younger sister, who is a couple years younger than him and was 9-10 years old when he was being taught by the missionaries. The parents decided to wait for her too prior to allowing her to decide about getting baptized.

    So...time passes. The two kids come to church off and on. The parents never do. Then the parents decide to get divorced. The kids are still coming to church - actually probably more consistently now than they did in the past. The boy has always been more consistent than the girl - but she's starting to attend more consistently too.

    I recently just found out that part of the reason for the divorce is the father came out as gay. They never really said anything or announced anything when they separated and divorced - but I guess the beauty of FaceBook is that you get to learn things about folks as they become more and more comfortable sharing about themselves on social media.

    And now I'm curious how things are going to go for the girl if/when she ever decides she's ready to get baptized and the parents decide she's old enough to make that decision. The parents haven't been super supportive of church for the last 6-7+ years. So if the kids come, they are coming on their own.

    But now - if the daughter decides to get baptized she will, presumably, have to do something the boy has never had to do and disavow her father's gay relationships and practices.

    This is all interesting to talk about, and could make an interesting TV episode to watch. But I'm more than a little concerned for the collision that is bound to take place at some point in the future and the feelings this girl has when she finds out it was OK for her brother to get baptized, receive the priesthood, etc., but she is stuck as an "investigator" until she reaches adulthood.

  23. #713

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    I know this isn't breaking new ground but the policy just seems so unnecessarily divisive and foolish. I just don't get it.
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  24. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flystripper View Post
    I know this isn't breaking new ground but the policy just seems so unnecessarily divisive and foolish. I just don't get it.
    I don't either, tbh.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  25. #715
    Senior Member Omaha 680's Avatar
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    I thought the policy was specifically about children of parents in a gay marriage (as opposed to children of married gay parents). Am I wrong? It doesn't make it any less divisive, but at least it would spare the girl the unnecessary conflict if her dad happens to not marry a man while she is a minor.

  26. #716

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    So -

    In our ward we have a kid who is now a Teacher. His parents stopped coming to church when he was in primary, and while he still participated in Cub Scouts, etc, they didn't really attend church. When he turned 8, his parents (who still weren't attending) told the bishop that they weren't interested in the boy getting baptized. They wanted to wait for him to decide for himself about being baptized when he was older.

    When this kid was 12, they decided it was OK for him to listen to the missionaries if he wanted to. He ended up beginning to attend church and was ultimately baptized and has since been ordained. He has a younger sister, who is a couple years younger than him and was 9-10 years old when he was being taught by the missionaries. The parents decided to wait for her too prior to allowing her to decide about getting baptized.

    So...time passes. The two kids come to church off and on. The parents never do. Then the parents decide to get divorced. The kids are still coming to church - actually probably more consistently now than they did in the past. The boy has always been more consistent than the girl - but she's starting to attend more consistently too.

    I recently just found out that part of the reason for the divorce is the father came out as gay. They never really said anything or announced anything when they separated and divorced - but I guess the beauty of FaceBook is that you get to learn things about folks as they become more and more comfortable sharing about themselves on social media.

    And now I'm curious how things are going to go for the girl if/when she ever decides she's ready to get baptized and the parents decide she's old enough to make that decision. The parents haven't been super supportive of church for the last 6-7+ years. So if the kids come, they are coming on their own.

    But now - if the daughter decides to get baptized she will, presumably, have to do something the boy has never had to do and disavow her father's gay relationships and practices.

    This is all interesting to talk about, and could make an interesting TV episode to watch. But I'm more than a little concerned for the collision that is bound to take place at some point in the future and the feelings this girl has when she finds out it was OK for her brother to get baptized, receive the priesthood, etc., but she is stuck as an "investigator" until she reaches adulthood.
    It's a bad policy. But, in this case, the policy wouldn't apply to this kid. I believe the policy only specifically applies to a very narrow group of people, who are the children of a parent who 1) are primary custodians of the child 2) are in a gay marriage. It's extremely rare and most likely to be adopted children of a gay couple.

  27. #717

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    From what I remember it only applies to children with a parent(s) that are in a gay marriage. Doesn't necessarily apply if they simply have a gay parent. And Jay, I think that there is a much, much larger group of people that have kids, divorce, and then come out as gay and get married. I would imagine that kids that are adopted and raised by a gay couple that want to later get baptized and go on missions are extremely rare.

  28. #718

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    Just to clarify. Not a policy. It's revelation.

  29. #719
    Royal Rooter Green Monstah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    So -

    In our ward we have a kid who is now a Teacher. His parents stopped coming to church when he was in primary, and while he still participated in Cub Scouts, etc, they didn't really attend church. When he turned 8, his parents (who still weren't attending) told the bishop that they weren't interested in the boy getting baptized. They wanted to wait for him to decide for himself about being baptized when he was older.

    When this kid was 12, they decided it was OK for him to listen to the missionaries if he wanted to. He ended up beginning to attend church and was ultimately baptized and has since been ordained. He has a younger sister, who is a couple years younger than him and was 9-10 years old when he was being taught by the missionaries. The parents decided to wait for her too prior to allowing her to decide about getting baptized.

    So...time passes. The two kids come to church off and on. The parents never do. Then the parents decide to get divorced. The kids are still coming to church - actually probably more consistently now than they did in the past. The boy has always been more consistent than the girl - but she's starting to attend more consistently too.

    I recently just found out that part of the reason for the divorce is the father came out as gay. They never really said anything or announced anything when they separated and divorced - but I guess the beauty of FaceBook is that you get to learn things about folks as they become more and more comfortable sharing about themselves on social media.

    And now I'm curious how things are going to go for the girl if/when she ever decides she's ready to get baptized and the parents decide she's old enough to make that decision. The parents haven't been super supportive of church for the last 6-7+ years. So if the kids come, they are coming on their own.

    But now - if the daughter decides to get baptized she will, presumably, have to do something the boy has never had to do and disavow her father's gay relationships and practices.

    This is all interesting to talk about, and could make an interesting TV episode to watch. But I'm more than a little concerned for the collision that is bound to take place at some point in the future and the feelings this girl has when she finds out it was OK for her brother to get baptized, receive the priesthood, etc., but she is stuck as an "investigator" until she reaches adulthood.
    Hopefully your bishop and stake president don't enforce the policy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Monstah View Post
    Hopefully your bishop and stake president don't enforce the policy.
    ...which doesn't apply here...
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