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Thread: New LDS Church Website: Mormons and Gays

  1. #1
    Heartless Bastard Indy Coug's Avatar
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    Default New LDS Church Website: Mormons and Gays

    Everything in life is an approximation.

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    Lebowski's Law!!!
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    The Church’s approach to this issue stands apart from society in many ways. And that’s alright. Reasonable people can and do differ. From a public relations perspective it would be easier for the Church to simply accept homosexual behavior. That we cannot do, for God’s law is not ours to change. There is no change in the Church’s position of what is morally right. But what is changing — and what needs to change — is to help Church members respond sensitively and thoughtfully when they encounter same-sex attraction in their own families, among other Church members, or elsewhere.
    I have really, really mixed feelings about this. There is both good and bad in this, IMO.

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    Major disappointment The_Tick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    I have really, really mixed feelings about this. There is both good and bad in this, IMO.
    What is bad? They believe it to be God's law. Pretty simple from their point of view.

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    Grooveshark dick tease MarkGrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Tick View Post
    What is bad? They believe it to be God's law. Pretty simple from their point of view.
    Don't ask now. Just wait for the Mormon Expositor webcast.
    So Russell...what do you love about music? To begin with, everything.

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    Striving for mediocrity Art Vandelay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkGrace View Post
    Don't ask now. Just wait for the Mormon Expositor webcast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Tick View Post
    What is bad? They believe it to be God's law. Pretty simple from their point of view.
    My initial thought was that reiterating that the doctrine is not ever likely to change makes the hopeless even more hopeless. But on second thought, it might be better for gay people hoping for a change to face up to the fact that one isn't coming and confront what they will do based on that one way or the other. Certainly encouraging people to treat their gay loved ones with kindness has the chance to directly reduce the number of suicides and that can only be viewed as a good thing. Adolescence and early adulthood is an especially difficult and risky time for gays who are raised Mormon. My main concern is getting them through to a level of maturity and perspective from which they can make an adult decision about how or if they want to reconcile all that alive.

    I'm not really interested in being a critic of the church on this any more, it is was it is. But SuperGabers efforts with Circle the Wagons has brought a large number of wonderful gay people into my life and their pain and struggle has become very palpable to me and close to my heart. Anything that can alleviate that suffering is something I can get behind, even if it is imperfect.

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    Grooveshark dick tease MarkGrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    I'm not really interested in being a critic of the church on this any more, it is was it is. But SuperGabers efforts with Circle the Wagons has brought a large number of wonderful gay people into my life and their pain and struggle has become very palpable to me and close to my heart. Anything that can alleviate that suffering is something I can get behind, even if it is imperfect.
    So Russell...what do you love about music? To begin with, everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    I'm not really interested in being a critic of the church on this any more, it is was it is. But SuperGabers efforts with Circle the Wagons has brought a large number of wonderful gay people into my life and their pain and struggle has become very palpable to me and close to my heart. Anything that can alleviate that suffering is something I can get behind, even if it is imperfect.
    What is Circle the Wagons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkGrace View Post

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    What is Circle the Wagons?
    Sorry it's Circling the Wagons.

    http://circlingthewagons.org/

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    RIP CUF DU Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    Sorry it's Circling the Wagons.

    http://circlingthewagons.org/
    This is weak. They don't even have a podcast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkGrace View Post
    Have you looked at your own avatar? Just sayin'.

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    Invisible Swordsman DrumNFeather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    My initial thought was that reiterating that the doctrine is not ever likely to change makes the hopeless even more hopeless. But on second thought, it might be better for gay people hoping for a change to face up to the fact that one isn't coming and confront what they will do based on that one way or the other. Certainly encouraging people to treat their gay loved ones with kindness has the chance to directly reduce the number of suicides and that can only be viewed as a good thing. Adolescence and early adulthood is an especially difficult and risky time for gays who are raised Mormon. My main concern is getting them through to a level of maturity and perspective from which they can make an adult decision about how or if they want to reconcile all that alive.

    I'm not really interested in being a critic of the church on this any more, it is was it is. But SuperGabers efforts with Circle the Wagons has brought a large number of wonderful gay people into my life and their pain and struggle has become very palpable to me and close to my heart. Anything that can alleviate that suffering is something I can get behind, even if it is imperfect.
    Reverse psychology here?
    "They're good. They've always been good" - David Shaw.

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DU Ute View Post
    This is weak. They don't even have a podcast.
    Neither does CUF. We aren't weak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    Reverse psychology here?
    It's like you hoping I might eventually pay you that $15 for the fantasy league. At some point it is better for you to realize you can't trust me. Or decide that you will just have to take me as I am.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    Sorry it's Circling the Wagons.

    http://circlingthewagons.org/
    Thanks. Good for SG for helping out.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    Thanks. Good for SG for helping out.
    She is a good example to me. While I am running my mouth she is frequently actually helping people.

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    Invisible Swordsman DrumNFeather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    It's like you hoping I might eventually pay you that $15 for the fantasy league. At some point it is better for you to realize you can't trust me. Or decide that you will just have to take me as I am.
    Well, I'm not in the playoffs, but the pain that Surfah and Tick could feel from not having your money is very palpable and close to my heart.
    "They're good. They've always been good" - David Shaw.

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

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    a day late/a dollar short Sullyute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Tick View Post
    What is bad? They believe it to be God's law. Pretty simple from their point of view.
    That we cannot do, for God’s law is not ours to change. There is no change in the Church’s position of what is morally right
    I find this slightly humorous as the Church as changed "God's law" multiple times and didn't seem to have a problem with it. From plural marriage, to priesthood ban, to woman giving blessings, to different amounts of tithing, to temple ceremony, to word of wisdom, actions in the bedroom, etc. So to say that they cannot change "God's law" gets a chuckle out of me.

    I do think that it is definitely progress in the right directions. baby steps.
    "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    Well, I'm not in the playoffs, but the pain that Surfah and Tick could feel from not having your money is very palpable and close to my heart.
    I'm going to be seeing Surfah soon, maybe I'll just pay him directly.

  22. #22
    Invisible Swordsman DrumNFeather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    I'm going to be seeing Surfah soon, maybe I'll just pay him directly.
    I saw that. I'm sure that will be lovely. Nevertheless, just pay me.
    "They're good. They've always been good" - David Shaw.

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  23. #23
    Heartless Bastard Indy Coug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    I find this slightly humorous as the Church as changed "God's law" multiple times and didn't seem to have a problem with it. From plural marriage, to priesthood ban, to woman giving blessings, to different amounts of tithing, to temple ceremony, to word of wisdom, actions in the bedroom, etc. So to say that they cannot change "God's law" gets a chuckle out of me.

    I do think that it is definitely progress in the right directions. baby steps.

    The obvious reply is that God changes God's law.



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    Good for them for finally using the word 'gay' on the website. Although SSA is still heavily used, it looks like Oaks is losing the semantics battle.

    Unlike in times past, the Church does not necessarily advise those with same-sex attraction to marry those of the opposite sex.
    Kind of a weaselly way to apologize, but again, I'll take it.

    God has given us commandments that support family and individual happiness. One of these is the Law of Chastity — individuals should have no sexual relations except in marriage, which Latter-day Saints define as between a man and a woman.
    If you believe in the law of chastity, then an easy way of reconciling it with gays is to simply let them marry. But we've argued that to death. It is interesting that the phrase 'Latter-day Saints define' is used. Certainly the leadership believes it is God who defines marriage. Why not man up and say it? Is this a signal that change is coming?

    We believe that with an eternal perspective, a person’s attraction to the same sex can be addressed and borne as a mortal test. It should not be viewed as a permanent condition. Though some people, including those resisting same-sex attraction, may not have the opportunity to marry a person of the opposite sex in this life, a just God will provide them with ample opportunity to do so in the next.
    No matter how faithful members are, I hope they realize how tough a sale this is to gays. 'Hi, we realize how hard it is to change your sexual orientation. You sincerely believe you were born that way, and it defines a large measure of who you are. But it really isn't who you are. You were straight before you came into this life, and you'll be straight after. Just wait and see'.

    I can see that some faithful members who are gay might take solace in this teaching, but I can't for the life of me imagine why a gay person would convert with this teaching hanging over their head for the rest of their life.


    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    The obvious reply is that God changes God's law.



    Signed,

    Moses
    If one of my children or other family member tells me they're gay, I'll be honest with them what the church expects of them currently. And if they can't do it, I'll tell them that's fine. Go ahead and life your life as you see fit. Because chances are they'll see the church turn on this doctrine in their life time. No need to wait for Moses.

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    a day late/a dollar short Sullyute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    The obvious reply is that God changes God's law.



    Signed,

    Moses
    And that is exactly what will happen in the future. 10, 20, or 30 years from now the Church will announce that "God" has changed His law. I look forward to that day.
    "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

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    Members Only Dwight Schr-ute's Avatar
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    Where the Church stands:

    The experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. With love and understanding, the Church reaches out to all God’s children, including our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.
    This was sort of subtle, but seems to be a big admission for the church. The idea that these issues are strongly biological and not just social will serve the membership well in hopefully enabling them to be more compassionate.

  27. #27
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-ute View Post
    This was sort of subtle, but seems to be a big admission for the church. The idea that these issues are strongly biological and not just social will serve the membership well in hopefully enabling them to be more compassionate.
    Yes. I am glad that God changed his mind about that at least.

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    I am not impressed by the website. Poor design and layout. Content is even worse.
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    Joycelyn Elders Supporter SoonerCoug's Avatar
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    "God's law is not ours to change."

    They should have added a disclaimer about how often God likes to change his mind.
    That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. -C. Hitchens

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