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Thread: The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabrockster View Post
    Looks like Rand Paul and Chris Christie are already gearing up already.. However, in my mind. This just goes to how separated the GOP is and lessens the chance of winning. But, there is still lots of time before then. But the infighting still remains..
    What, That? could be the worst set of sentences... but ever. But it is still pretty bad.

  2. #62
    Senior Member dabrockster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach McGuirk View Post
    What, That? could be the worst set of sentences... but ever. But it is still pretty bad.
    Multi-tasking is never a good thing for me.. As noted above..

  3. #63

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    Chris Christie, lol.
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  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    I wonder if Jeb Bush doesn't make a run. Is it still too soon and/or have the dems and Obama effectively made the Bush name toxic.

    A Jeb Bush with Marco Rubio could be a nice ticket. Florida would go red again with them. I think we reverse the downward trend among Latinos also. A Mexican born first lady and the son of Cuban immigrants as VP. That ticket might be too Catholic for the far right, but I think it is time to put them in check.

    I like Paul Ryan quite a bit. He'll be attractive if the GOP's worst fears are realized and the economy is still in tatters in 4 years. I could also get behind a Ryan-Rubio ticket. I just wonder if they're too young together.

    I really would love Mitt. But he's done even if it were an option.
    Sadly, Jeb was always the strongest presidential candidate among HW's kids. Its less an issue of what the Dems have done with the Bush name, it is what Bush did with it. I can imagine a much better world if he had chosen not to listen to Cheney and Rumsfeld and had listened to Powell and Rice instead. And just like Foreign Policy, similar things can be said about his idiotic economic decisions - we continue to pay for these really bad choices and will for years to come.
    Tell Graham to see. And tell Merrill to swing away.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    Saw this in a tweet by one of my favorite twitterers of all time:

    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/11/19...bio-has-begun/

    :facepalm:

    Marco, the earth is like 2 billion years old. Just say that. This isn't a gotcha question. It's not a difficult question. Why in the hell can't these rising GOP stars deal with this crap? This is turning into a game for the media and frankly it's kind of fun to watch as I hope this crap finally either tanks the GOP or releases them from their servitude to the religious right.

    I'm afraid that Marco actually thinks the earth is 7,000 years old. Thank god I'm not a Republican.
    It is not something pleasant given that I have been a Republican my whole life, but the GOP is imploding. It is being killed by a true cult of ideology which is ripping the party apart and destroying it nationally. It will still win Congressional and state seats due to gerrymandered districts. But nationally - it is in deep trouble. Particularly the rightwingers have all the characteristics of cult followers with how they handle their ideologies (both the conservative and libertarian versions). Just look at the joke Mike Lee has become, well I guess that he has always been but that he was ever elected to high office!?

    The silly 7K year old earth quote is just the very small tip of a very deep iceberg. That ideological political cult rejects science, education and knowledge, true Constitutional negotiation and compromise and if anything divergent happens - facts that don't fit the dogmatic paradigm - well that is just media bias. Its TV and radio evangelistic preachers knock down any alternative narrative. No need ever to deal with the cognitive dissonance resulting between the ideology and the real world. All just like a cult and just as dangerous.
    Tell Graham to see. And tell Merrill to swing away.

  6. #66
    Resident Science Cop woot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabrockster View Post
    Looks like Rand Paul and Chris Christie are already gearing up already.. However, in my mind. This just goes to how separated the GOP is and lessens the chance of winning. But, there is still lots of time before then. But the infighting still remains..

    Paul responding to Christie blasting him about surveillance on US citizens..

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...k-more-real-a/
    Christie calling the debates over drone strikes and surveillance "too intellectual" tells me that Christie is more of the same. Unfortunately, it also tells me he's more likely to win. I'm so sick of the democrats, but can't remember the last time the republicans nominated someone I could vote for with a 10-foot pole. Romney is probably the best they've come up with in decades and he was still all about cozying up to the know-nothing wing of the party.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaCougar View Post
    It is not something pleasant given that I have been a Republican my whole life, but the GOP is imploding. It is being killed by a true cult of ideology which is ripping the party apart and destroying it nationally. It will still win Congressional and state seats due to gerrymandered districts. But nationally - it is in deep trouble. Particularly the rightwingers have all the characteristics of cult followers with how they handle their ideologies (both the conservative and libertarian versions). Just look at the joke Mike Lee has become, well I guess that he has always been but that he was ever elected to high office!?

    The silly 7K year old earth quote is just the very small tip of a very deep iceberg. That ideological political cult rejects science, education and knowledge, true Constitutional negotiation and compromise and if anything divergent happens - facts that don't fit the dogmatic paradigm - well that is just media bias. Its TV and radio evangelistic preachers knock down any alternative narrative. No need ever to deal with the cognitive dissonance resulting between the ideology and the real world. All just like a cult and just as dangerous.
    I think the biggest issue is it is without a leader to rally around. So much of that, while not going away, would be subordinated if the Party had a leader.
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
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    I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
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  8. #68
    Where's Wallace? Surfah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    I think the biggest issue is it is without a leader to rally around. So much of that, while not going away, would be subordinated if the Party had a leader.
    I agree with this completely.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by woot View Post
    Christie calling the debates over drone strikes and surveillance "too intellectual" tells me that Christie is more of the same. Unfortunately, it also tells me he's more likely to win. I'm so sick of the democrats, but can't remember the last time the republicans nominated someone I could vote for with a 10-foot pole. Romney is probably the best they've come up with in decades and he was still all about cozying up to the know-nothing wing of the party.
    He didn't say they were too intellectual he just referred to them as intellectual debates that pale in comparison to dealing with the human experience of seeing the impact of 9/11. I don't like his comments either as they remind me of the same emotional leverage the President tries to use to take away people's guns. I just want to be clear that I don't find Christie's comments anti-intellectual but rather pro-emotional, which is in my non-intellectual opinion pretty damn dumb.

    Regardless, if the gets the Republican nomination I think the dude can win.
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
    -General George S. Patton

    I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
    -DOCTOR Wuap

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    I think the biggest issue is it is without a leader to rally around. So much of that, while not going away, would be subordinated if the Party had a leader.
    I wish that were true, however I think the type of campaign Romney was forced to run by these types completely undermined his candidacy.

    These guys destroyed him from being the reasonable guy with strong economic credentials. They also destroyed the necessary support among women and Hispanics necessary to win a National election. You don't need a lot, but you need a small portion of those voting blocks.

    In spite of leadership, we were exposed as the party of "extreme conservatives." Put another way, the party of radical, angry, bitter old White men (with a solid dose of mysogeny on top.)

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    Tell Graham to see. And tell Merrill to swing away.

  11. #71
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaCougar View Post
    I wish that were true, however I think the type of campaign Romney was forced to run by these types completely undermined his candidacy.

    These guys destroyed him from being the reasonable guy with strong economic credentials. They also destroyed the necessary support among women and Hispanics necessary to win a National election. You don't need a lot, but you need a small portion of those voting blocks.

    In spite of leadership, we were exposed as the party of "extreme conservatives." Put another way, the party of radical, angry, bitter old White men (with a solid dose of mysogeny on top.)

    Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2
    In other words Romney was not that leader. Romney was just not meant to be a politician. Obviously, I think he would have been a better President than our current one and perhaps even a good President. But he was not a politician. I think Christie is a politician and can win. I don't buy the narrative about the Republican Party having insurmountable issues.
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
    -General George S. Patton

    I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
    -DOCTOR Wuap

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    In other words Romney was not that leader. Romney was just not meant to be a politician. Obviously, I think he would have been a better President than our current one and perhaps even a good President. But he was not a politician. I think Christie is a politician and can win. I don't buy the narrative about the Republican Party having insurmountable issues.
    I'd vote for Christie. Certainly over Hillary. Likely over Paul, Ryan, or most other likely candidates.
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  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    In other words Romney was not that leader. Romney was just not meant to be a politician. Obviously, I think he would have been a better President than our current one and perhaps even a good President. But he was not a politician. I think Christie is a politician and can win. I don't buy the narrative about the Republican Party having insurmountable issues.
    I guess we just disagree. I go back and forth about whether they are insurmountable, but they are certainly very, very serious. The problems are also very deep. I see these dogmatic ideologues in numbers I've not seen in my 20 years in the field at every level. In city council meetings, fighting any sort of planning (and forgetting how much planning has developed their cities in ways they enjoy), in state legislatures with increasing vitriol against teachers and education (thanks Rep. Osmond for that wonderful little gem) and as we have been discussing at the national level.

    The problems aren't that Romney had gaffs like the 47% line, it is that he knew it was the only line they wanted to hear. If you buy that line, you (speaking generally and not specifically at you Goat) are part of the problem. There are numerous, numerous issues as I said that are tied up in that cult of ideology. The various attacks on science whether it be the age of the earth or climate change, the attacks on education because it may make kids more fair/objective, calling women who want birth control sluts, etc. There is a whole stinking pile of crap that any party leader would have to shovel out. I currently don't see a potential party leader out there both capable and willing to try that kind of heavy lifting to save the party from itself.
    Tell Graham to see. And tell Merrill to swing away.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    I'd vote for Christie. Certainly over Hillary. Likely over Paul, Ryan, or most other likely candidates.
    We're less than three years removed from the Democrats getting a historical ass-kicking in the midterms, Obama won by less than four points and the navel-gazers are saying the Republicans are imploding? How many governorships and state legislatures do the GOP control again? And it's increasingly becoming likely that the GOP will take back the Senate next year. So after that -- the legislative branch will be controlled by the GOP along with a majority of Governorships and state legislatures.

    Meanwhile the Democrats have Hillary to run in 2016 and that's it. Zero viable candidates outside of her. I don't think the Democrats can win the White House with a white male candidate for the next 20 years. They're going to have to have the record-breaking minority turnout like they had in 2008 and 2012 every time because of what the Obama administration has done.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    In other words Romney was not that leader. Romney was just not meant to be a politician. Obviously, I think he would have been a better President than our current one and perhaps even a good President. But he was not a politician. I think Christie is a politician and can win. I don't buy the narrative about the Republican Party having insurmountable issues.

    I think we'll just see another big spending conservative if we vote Christie in. I want Jeb. I doubt it happens.
    Will donate kidney for B12 membership.

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    We're less than three years removed from the Democrats getting a historical ass-kicking in the midterms, Obama won by less than four points and the navel-gazers are saying the Republicans are imploding? How many governorships and state legislatures do the GOP control again? And it's increasingly becoming likely that the GOP will take back the Senate next year.

    Meanwhile the Democrats have Hillary to run in 2016 and that's it. Zero viable candidates outside of her. I don't think the Democrats can win the White House with a white male candidate for the next 20 years. They're going to have to have the record-breaking minority turnout like they had in 2008 and 2012 every time because of what the Obama administration has done.
    Oh, the Democrats do have their problems - no doubt. We could spend time with them as well but that doesn't change what I argue. As I mentioned above, the reason the GOP does well in many state legislatures is gerrymandered disctricts. it is also a process that radicalizes candidates even more. Governors are an interesting thing and certainly gives me a bit of hope. Part of it is demographics, part of it is that for some reason slightly more moderate GOP candidates found a way to survive the rightwing onslaught.

    Even then, I am pretty sure that my longtime boss Mike Leavitt wouldn't survive a Convention process in Utah this year. Inspite of being very successful and overall popular as Governor. Herbert is the new moderate but he isn't a Leavitt, Walker, or Huntsman.

    The bigger problem you have is that those "record-breaking" minority turnouts are the new normal and it is going to get worse over the years (worse in terms of the GOP) The electorate will continue to get more hispanic, younger, more female in the years to conme. The GOP has gone after those sectors full force.

    One thing the GOP has done well is demonize, turning Obama into the Constitution Destroying, Socialist, Marxist, African Anti-Christ bringing the tyranny of Health Care to you door. But they are increasing unable to govern, nor do they show the ability to govern. One look at the likes of Mike Lee, Rep. Osmond and countless others make this point painfully clear.

    Not a big fan of Hillary, but I do think she will likely beat ANY of the currently discussed GOP candidates. There are also quite a few young Democratic political leaders rising up on their side of the aisle. For all their faults, once seasoned the Castro brothers and others like them are going to make folks like Cruz on the GOP side look like absolute fools. I worry a lot about the lack of good, young talent in the GOP these days. The only ones making it up seem to be the ideologues. When you get someone who might make it like Rubio - they take their chances and just blow them up (7K year earth, some of Rubio's more recent stands which undermine his own previous efforts).
    Tell Graham to see. And tell Merrill to swing away.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaCougar View Post
    One thing the GOP has done well is demonize, turning Obama into the Constitution Destroying, Socialist, Marxist, African Anti-Christ bringing the tyranny of Health Care to you door. But they are increasing unable to govern, nor do they show the ability to govern. One look at the likes of Mike Lee, Rep. Osmond and countless others make this point painfully clear.
    Does anyone here buy your "I'm a Republican!" act? Just curious.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaCougar View Post
    Oh, the Democrats do have their problems - no doubt. We could spend time with them as well but that doesn't change what I argue. As I mentioned above, the reason the GOP does well in many state legislatures is gerrymandered disctricts. it is also a process that radicalizes candidates even more. Governors are an interesting thing and certainly gives me a bit of hope. Part of it is demographics, part of it is that for some reason slightly more moderate GOP candidates found a way to survive the rightwing onslaught.

    Even then, I am pretty sure that my longtime boss Mike Leavitt wouldn't survive a Convention process in Utah this year. Inspite of being very successful and overall popular as Governor. Herbert is the new moderate but he isn't a Leavitt, Walker, or Huntsman.

    The bigger problem you have is that those "record-breaking" minority turnouts are the new normal and it is going to get worse over the years (worse in terms of the GOP) The electorate will continue to get more hispanic, younger, more female in the years to conme. The GOP has gone after those sectors full force.

    One thing the GOP has done well is demonize, turning Obama into the Constitution Destroying, Socialist, Marxist, African Anti-Christ bringing the tyranny of Health Care to you door. But they are increasing unable to govern, nor do they show the ability to govern. One look at the likes of Mike Lee, Rep. Osmond and countless others make this point painfully clear.

    Not a big fan of Hillary, but I do think she will likely beat ANY of the currently discussed GOP candidates. There are also quite a few young Democratic political leaders rising up on their side of the aisle. For all their faults, once seasoned the Castro brothers and others like them are going to make folks like Cruz on the GOP side look like absolute fools. I worry a lot about the lack of good, young talent in the GOP these days. The only ones making it up seem to be the ideologues. When you get someone who might make it like Rubio - they take their chances and just blow them up (7K year earth, some of Rubio's more recent stands which undermine his own previous efforts).
    Hillary is and should be favored over current GOP candidates, but she can be beaten. You're talking about someone whose resume features time as First Lady, for which she was most famous for shredding documents, failing to pass health care reform, and getting cuckolded by an intern; as a Senator, during which her most significant act was supporting the war in Iraq; and as Secretary of State, when she claimed responsibility for why happened in Benghazi. Anybody who thinks Hillary can't be beaten will also need to explain why she lost in 2008, and why she didn't serve in Obama's second term administration.
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  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaCougar View Post
    Oh, the Democrats do have their problems - no doubt. We could spend time with them as well but that doesn't change what I argue. As I mentioned above, the reason the GOP does well in many state legislatures is gerrymandered disctricts. it is also a process that radicalizes candidates even more. Governors are an interesting thing and certainly gives me a bit of hope. Part of it is demographics, part of it is that for some reason slightly more moderate GOP candidates found a way to survive the rightwing onslaught.

    Even then, I am pretty sure that my longtime boss Mike Leavitt wouldn't survive a Convention process in Utah this year. Inspite of being very successful and overall popular as Governor. Herbert is the new moderate but he isn't a Leavitt, Walker, or Huntsman.

    The bigger problem you have is that those "record-breaking" minority turnouts are the new normal and it is going to get worse over the years (worse in terms of the GOP) The electorate will continue to get more hispanic, younger, more female in the years to conme. The GOP has gone after those sectors full force.

    One thing the GOP has done well is demonize, turning Obama into the Constitution Destroying, Socialist, Marxist, African Anti-Christ bringing the tyranny of Health Care to you door. But they are increasing unable to govern, nor do they show the ability to govern. One look at the likes of Mike Lee, Rep. Osmond and countless others make this point painfully clear.

    Not a big fan of Hillary, but I do think she will likely beat ANY of the currently discussed GOP candidates. There are also quite a few young Democratic political leaders rising up on their side of the aisle. For all their faults, once seasoned the Castro brothers and others like them are going to make folks like Cruz on the GOP side look like absolute fools. I worry a lot about the lack of good, young talent in the GOP these days. The only ones making it up seem to be the ideologues. When you get someone who might make it like Rubio - they take their chances and just blow them up (7K year earth, some of Rubio's more recent stands which undermine his own previous efforts).
    All of this you're saying about the GOP demonizing Obama was also said about the Democrats vis a vis George W. Bush circa 2005. Same shit, different year and administration.

    And for every Mike Lee, you have certifiable nut like Barbara Boxer. Then you have types like Jesse Jackson, Jr. who get reelected year after year on the Democratic House side.

    I count you as one of the navel-gazers. You're in the minority as far as thinking the GOP can't govern, because the voters in 30 of the states think they can and the largest municipal bankruptcy in American history along with credit ratings in California and Illinois says the Democrats can't.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    All of this you're saying about the GOP demonizing Obama was also said about the Democrats vis a vis George W. Bush circa 2005. Same shit, different year and administration.

    And for every Mike Lee, you have certifiable nut like Barbara Boxer. Then you have types like Jesse Jackson, Jr. who get reelected year after year on the Democratic House side.

    I count you as one of the navel-gazers. You're in the minority as far as thinking the GOP can't govern, because the voters in 30 of the states think they can and the largest municipal bankruptcy in American history along with credit ratings in California and Illinois says the Democrats can't.
    Mike Lee is also a nut
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  21. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by dabrockster View Post
    Looks like Rand Paul and Chris Christie are already gearing up already.. However, in my mind. This just goes to how separated the GOP is and lessens the chance of winning. But, there is still lots of time before then. But the infighting still remains..

    Paul responding to Christie blasting him about surveillance on US citizens..

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...k-more-real-a/
    I think Paul would be unelectable for the office of POTUS
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  22. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by SandYFan View Post
    Does anyone here buy your "I'm a Republican!" act? Just curious.
    Why wouldn't they - its true. Its only the real ideologues that have a problem with my life-long ties to the GOP. They would prefer to "purify" the party and rid it of all those evil RINOs.
    Tell Graham to see. And tell Merrill to swing away.

  23. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    All of this you're saying about the GOP demonizing Obama was also said about the Democrats vis a vis George W. Bush circa 2005. Same shit, different year and administration.

    And for every Mike Lee, you have certifiable nut like Barbara Boxer. Then you have types like Jesse Jackson, Jr. who get reelected year after year on the Democratic House side.

    I count you as one of the navel-gazers. You're in the minority as far as thinking the GOP can't govern, because the voters in 30 of the states think they can and the largest municipal bankruptcy in American history along with credit ratings in California and Illinois says the Democrats can't.
    Yes, horrific things were said about Bush. He was wrong about most things, but a lot of what was said about him just wrong. Do you tell your kids that because the neighbor kids take drugs that it is more than OK for them to do so?

    As far as navel-gazing, it is far, far better to be self-reflective and attempt objectivity than it is to be so certain you are right that it doesn't matter what reality tell you. Or to be more crass since you want to go anatomy, I'd rather gaze at my navel than have my head stuck in an ideological butt so far that I can't smell or choose to ignore the stink because I just know the ideology is "true" regardless.
    Tell Graham to see. And tell Merrill to swing away.

  24. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    I think Paul would be unelectable for the office of POTUS
    I tend to agree with you. I don't see him being able to win a national election.
    Tell Graham to see. And tell Merrill to swing away.

  25. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaCougar View Post
    Why wouldn't they - its true. Its only the real ideologues that have a problem with my life-long ties to the GOP. They would prefer to "purify" the party and rid it of all those evil RINOs.
    Who cares about your "ties" with the GOP? Your views align far better with a run-of-the-mill democrat's views than they do with a run-of-the-mill republican's views.
    Last edited by imanihonjin; 07-30-2013 at 11:40 AM.

  26. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    We're less than three years removed from the Democrats getting a historical ass-kicking in the midterms, Obama won by less than four points and the navel-gazers are saying the Republicans are imploding? How many governorships and state legislatures do the GOP control again? And it's increasingly becoming likely that the GOP will take back the Senate next year. So after that -- the legislative branch will be controlled by the GOP along with a majority of Governorships and state legislatures.

    Meanwhile the Democrats have Hillary to run in 2016 and that's it. Zero viable candidates outside of her. I don't think the Democrats can win the White House with a white male candidate for the next 20 years. They're going to have to have the record-breaking minority turnout like they had in 2008 and 2012 every time because of what the Obama administration has done.
    If you don't think there are serious issues with the party your head is in the sand. Even Republican leaders think there are serious problems.

    You have Boehner, bless his heart, who can't control the radicals in his own caucus and is becoming much more of a slave to them than a leader. You have Senators who were thought to be leaders (like Rubio) being eaten alive by his own for taking a more moderate approach on immigration (apparently nothing is acceptable on immigration reform). You have governors like Christie being killed because he had the gall to work with Obama during a horrific natural disaster. The Senate minority leader has basically lost all control over his caucus because a handful of Republican Senators finally stopped to ask what they were doing in the Senate other than just saying no to everything.

    The issue with Republicans isn't the lack of leadership- that's just a symptom of the issue. The actual issue is a culture that makes it extremely difficult for a reasonable leader to emerge. Even Ryan is being viewed as too liberal on budget issues right now. The party has allowed and even encouraged the whackos to take over. I don't know that we have seen anything like this aside from the extreme liberal radicalism in the 1960s (which wasn't exactly good for the country either). It remains to be seen where this ends, but I have a very hard time seeing anyone other than a radical getting the nomination and consequently I have a very hard time seeing Republicans posing a real threat in 2016.

  27. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    Hillary is and should be favored over current GOP candidates, but she can be beaten. You're talking about someone whose resume features time as First Lady, for which she was most famous for shredding documents, failing to pass health care reform, and getting cuckolded by an intern; as a Senator, during which her most significant act was supporting the war in Iraq; and as Secretary of State, when she claimed responsibility for why happened in Benghazi. Anybody who thinks Hillary can't be beaten will also need to explain why she lost in 2008, and why she didn't serve in Obama's second term administration.
    She lost in 2008 because she was running against Obama and not the litany of nutty Republicans they will offer up in 2016. She is highly likely to win in 2016 because Obama isn't running and the litany of nutty Republicans will be.

  28. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by imanihonjin View Post
    Who cares about your "ties" with the GOP? Your views align far better with a run-of-the-mill democrat's views than they do with a run-of-the-mill republican's views.
    VirginiaCougar's views are pretty moderate. Which is why I agree with your conclusion that his views don't fit within the current Republican party.

  29. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by calicoug View Post
    She lost in 2008 because she was running against Obama and not the litany of nutty Republicans they will offer up in 2016. She is highly likely to win in 2016 because Obama isn't running and the litany of nutty Republicans will be.
    She lost in 2008 because it was more acceptable among democrats to be a chauvinist than a racist. Her treatment in the press, regardless of their political persuasion was incredibly sexist and despicable.
    Dio perdona tante cose per un’opera di misericordia
    God forgives many things for an act of mercy
    Alessandro Manzoni

    Knock it off. This board has enough problems without a dose of middle-age lechery.

    pelagius

  30. #90

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    I think she lost because she has no charisma, little in terms of actual legislative achievement and is corrupt. That's just IMHO.

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