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Thread: I have a bad feeling about this.

  1. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Tick View Post

    And the whole Princess Leia surviving in space...what is this? Guardians of the Galaxy did that better.
    I thought that was cool. The only manifestation of the "another" ever using the force aside from finding Luke on Bespin in TESB.
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  2. #722
    Senior Member Omaha 680's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    Good thoughts and fair review. I also have very little issue with the lack of Snoke's backstory, but I think they could have made the Snoke/Ren stuff bigger and better and more involved and cut out some of the other dumb side story stuff.

    Now that I've had a couple days to digest it all, I'd probably rank the SW episodes as such:

    Really Good

    1. Star Wars (yep, I liked it better than ESB)
    2. Empire Strikes Back
    3. The Force Awakens

    Good
    3a. Rogue One (not a real SW episode so it doesn't get an official ranking)
    4. The Last Jedi
    5. Revenge of the Sith
    6. Return of the Jedi (although I still get chills when Vader kills the Emperor)

    Yikes, really bad
    7. Phantom Menace
    8. Attack of the Clones
    *Spoilers at the end of this post*

    My new rankings that no one cares about:

    1. Rogue One
    2. Empire
    3. A New Hope
    4. ROTJ
    5. The Last Jedi
    6. Revenge of the Sith
    7. The Force Awakens
    8. The Phantom Menace
    9. Attack of the Clones

    There were some things I really liked about the movie: Training of Rey, Rey-Kylo interaction, and the entire Rey-Kylo-Snoke scene. There were also some things I didn't like: Poe being insubordinate to the point of treason during two separate battles and the resistance being whittled down to what, 10 people now? The latter is a continuation of my main issue with The Force Awakens. Supposedly the empire was crushed in ROTJ. Then 30 years later the First Order somehow miraculously comes into existence with enough military capability and a superweapon that destroys the new republic in one push of a button. Now everyone in the resistance is dead except for a handful of people, and there is still hope? I want the story of the rise and fall of the different governments in the Star Wars to be believable, but not overly tedious. Destruction of the empire in ROTJ was great. Rise of the Empire in the prequels was ok, but got too bogged down in details that didn't matter. In Episode 7 and 8 I have been pretty disappointed with this part of the story.

    Overall I enjoyed 8, and will see it again. I just don't ever expect a Star Wars movie to approach the originals again. Except Rogue One, which was the perfect Star Wars movie in my opinion.

  3. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Tick View Post
    Actually didn't care for it at all. I am a fanboy...so there is that.

    And the whole Princess Leia surviving in space...what is this? Guardians of the Galaxy did that better.

    Such a horrible movie. I was super bummed walking out of that thing.
    I loved the movie and I actually love your reaction. I was getting worried that Disney was going to make Star Wars safe, fuzzy, and luke warm(no pun intended). They bought in big time and have parks opening and the best thing they could have done was play it safe and make the Star Wars movies the new Marvel movies. Nope.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  4. #724

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    I loved the movie and I actually love your reaction. I was getting worried that Disney was going to make Star Wars safe, fuzzy, and luke warm(no pun intended). They bought in big time and have parks opening and the best thing they could have done was play it safe and make the Star Wars movies the new Marvel movies. Nope.
    Playing it safe was part of the reason I'm not super enthusiastic about it. I thought they totally played it safe.

  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    Playing it safe was part of the reason I'm not super enthusiastic about it. I thought they totally played it safe.
    Can't please everybody, I guess. The backlash from the fanboys about how the chess board is all messed up now etc etc etc is pretty dramatic.

    On another note, Rian Johnson makes a great point that they expanded the Force powers in every successive SW movie. And here it's been 20 years since the last one, so everyone's locked in on what we last saw in ROTJ. TFA didn't do much of that but Rian sure had zero compunction about it and that's part of why I liked it.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  6. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    Playing it safe was part of the reason I'm not super enthusiastic about it. I thought they totally played it safe.
    Now I'm curious about which aspect you found to have been played safe? That Ren stays bad and Rey stayed good, contrary to what had been teased?
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  7. #727

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    Linked from Drudge:

    http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/19...-force-awakens

    Force Awakens Monday = $40 million, Last Jedi Monday = $21.5 million. Some of that may be due to the fact that Monday, December 21 means the kids are out of school vs Monday December 18 means the kids are still in school. But, damn, that's a very big drop off.

    But this is perhaps more troublesome and points to some serious Star Wars fatigue:

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...wakens-1069479

    If any of you have had the unfortunate experience of being in the toy section at Wal Mart and walked along the kids' clothes aisles, you know how drenched everything is with Star Wars stuff.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  8. #728

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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    Linked from Drudge:

    http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/19...-force-awakens

    Force Awakens Monday = $40 million, Last Jedi Monday = $21.5 million. Some of that may be due to the fact that Monday, December 21 means the kids are out of school vs Monday December 18 means the kids are still in school. But, damn, that's a very big drop off.

    But this is perhaps more troublesome and points to some serious Star Wars fatigue:

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...wakens-1069479

    If any of you have had the unfortunate experience of being in the toy section at Wal Mart and walked along the kids' clothes aisles, you know how drenched everything is with Star Wars stuff.
    I'd be very surprised if much of any of that variance was not due to the fact that it's a school day vs non-school day comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefytee View Post
    The second Friday made half the money as the Force Awakens did on its second Friday.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  11. #731
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    For how loud the vocal minority is complaining about TLJ, it’s still waaay less controversial from a critical point of view and more well-liked than the last one.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  12. #732
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    Got a couple of new Audible books for Christmas... am excited to hear about the life and legacy of Genghis Khan.

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  13. #733

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    For how loud the vocal minority is complaining about TLJ, it’s still waaay less controversial from a critical point of view and more well-liked than the last one.
    Ten days after its release, this movie has the same IMDB score as Revenge of the Sith. Are you willing to bet it will hold onto a 7.6?

    The Force Awakens is an 8.1.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  14. #734
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    Ten days after its release, this movie has the same IMDB score as Revenge of the Sith. Are you willing to bet it will hold onto a 7.6?

    The Force Awakens is an 8.1.
    7.6. Wow! That is crazy low for a Star Wars movie so quickly after the release.

    No way it stays there. All movies decay with time. I wonder where it ends up.
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  15. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    Ten days after its release, this movie has the same IMDB score as Revenge of the Sith. Are you willing to bet it will hold onto a 7.6?

    The Force Awakens is an 8.1.
    This one made a special contingency of fanboys furious, prompting them to create accounts en masse on rotten tomatoes and imdb and slam the movie. More neutral audience polls show pretty unanimous approval around 85%.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  16. #736

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    This one made a special contingency of fanboys furious, prompting them to create accounts en masse on rotten tomatoes and imdb and slam the movie. More neutral audience polls show pretty unanimous approval around 85%.
    Those same fanboys also saw the Force Awakens and didn't tank it, and then they seem to be having a remarkably similar view of The Last Jedi as they had for Revenge of the Sith. There are now over 200k votes on imdb for this film. The audience review rating on rottentomatoes remains in the toilet. It appears as if the other contingent of fanboys and neutral viewers aren't propping up this movie.

    I'm also interested in this idea that if your core audience doesn't like your movie then it's okay as long as you attract the neutral viewers. I heard this argument being made for that terrible 2016 Ghostbusters movie -- which btw got around 75% positive reviews from critics. Your core audience drives the hype along with their spouses, girlfriends/boyfriends, children and friends to these movies.

    With regards to Star Wars movies, the Phantom Menace somehow has a 6.5 on imdb which is Batman v Superman territory. There seems to be a floor in the mid 6s for prestige pop culture properties with enormous built in followings. Amazing Spider Man 2 is a 6.7, X-Men Last Stand (the Ratner piece of shit) is somehow a 6.7.

    I think there needs to be a weighted scale to properly rate Star Wars movies. The Empire Strikes back is at 8.8, a certifiable classic in fans' minds and neutral viewers. Yet somehow the Phantom Menace is at 6.5 which is marginally decent for a movie, generally speaking (though a bit below my personal Mendoza line). I would put that piece of shit in Ghostbusters 2016's neighborhood -- 5.3. Ishtar is at 4.2 -- essentially a zero for an A movie release. The Phantom Menace isn't Ishtar bad, it's Ghostbusters 2016 bad.

    For Star Wars, a 6.5 is basically a 5.3. I would say the 8.8 for TESB is a legitimate 8.8. There's a 2.3 point spread between the worst and the best which should really be a 3.5. spread, so every tenth of a point difference on the imdb scores should be more like .15. Here we go:

    1. EMTB: 8.8
    2. Star Wars 8.65 (8.7)
    3. Return of the Jedi 8.2 (8.4)
    4. The Force Awakens 7.75 (8.1)
    5. The Revenge of the Sith 7.0 (7.6)
    6. The Last Jedi 7.0 (7.6)
    7. Attack of the Clones 5.45 (6.6)
    8. The Phantom Menace 5.3 (6.5)

    It seems like The Last Jedi may slip around at least another two tenths or so from its current imdb -- weighting for Star Wars, it will really be below a 7.0. IMO, a 7.0 is my personal Mendoza Line on imdb for movies. BTW, I think this Star Wars imdb ratio can certainly be applied to other film properties like the Batman and Spider Man movies with the spread between 8.8 and the movie's raw imdb score being the scale. For instance, the last Hobbit movie somehow got a 7.4. That's insane. There's a 1.4 point spread, knock that piece of shit down to a 6.7 -- and I think that's being generous. The Last Jedi is most definitely better than that movie.
    Last edited by Color Me Badd Fan; 12-26-2017 at 04:19 PM.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  17. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    Those same fanboys also saw the Force Awakens and didn't tank it, and then they seem to be having a remarkably similar view of The Last Jedi as they had for Revenge of the Sith. There are now over 200k votes on imdb for this film. The audience review rating on rottentomatoes remains in the toilet. It appears as if the other contingent of fanboys and neutral viewers aren’t propping up the movie.

    Well TFA was admittedly middle-of-the-road, was it not? That was the big knock on it. I don’t feel the need to go online and give a glowing review of a movie I like- I spend enough time on here talking about movies as it is. But an angry fanboy might, and Lord knows Star Wars has plenty of those.

    I don’t have a problem with people ranking it w ROTS or even phantom menace. That’s valid. It’s the that kills me. I can tell people actually got their feelings hurt by how it went. Well- I’m sure jj will give you all a softer landing for ix, for better or for worse.



    https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/18/1...es-review-bomb
    Last edited by Commando; 12-26-2017 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  18. #738

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    We saw it today. It’s kind of a hot mess. Like others have said, there is about a 20 minute plot detour that is completely useless. But it’s more good than bad, so I’ll take it.

  19. #739
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Just saw it on imax. Can someone please explain to me why all the fanboys are upset? I thought it was fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Just saw it on imax. Can someone please explain to me why all the fanboys are upset? I thought it was fine.
    Same. Seemed like just another Star Wars movie, e.g. lots of fun.

    Only thing I could possibly complain about is that the light saber battle between Kylo and Luke was super weak.
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  21. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Same. Seemed like just another Star Wars movie, e.g. lots of fun.

    Only thing I could possibly complain about is that the light saber battle between Kylo and Luke was super weak.
    Well that’s because Luke wasn’t there.

    I liked it but the gravity bomb thing really bugged me (as did the damaged bomber “diving” out of formation like a Henkel 111 over Dover in the Battle of Britain). But no worse than most Star Wars movies and it looked great in IMAX.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  22. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Well that’s because Luke wasn’t there.
    Well yes, but you don't know that going in. When they were are squared up ready to fight, I turned to my son and said "This is what we paid our money to see." Super disappointing.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

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  23. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Well yes, but you don't know that going in. When they were are squared up ready to fight, I turned to my son and said "This is what we paid our money to see." Super disappointing.
    I watched Kevin Smith’s review on YouTube and he makes an interesting point about Luke’s last comment to KR, ‘see ya around kiddo.’ I think we’ll see more of Luke in ix.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  24. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    I watched Kevin Smith’s review on YouTube and he makes an interesting point about Luke’s last comment to KR, ‘see ya around kiddo.’ I think we’ll see more of Luke in ix.
    Can't wait for another underwhelming light saber duel in IX.

    Say what you want about TPM, but it had the best light saber fight in the entire SW oeuvre... even better than Luke vs DV in TESB.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

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  25. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Can't wait for another underwhelming light saber duel in IX.

    Say what you want about TPM, but it had the best light saber fight in the entire SW oeuvre... even better than Luke vs DV in TESB.
    The saber fight and the music in Episode I are what make it watchable.

  26. #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Can't wait for another underwhelming light saber duel in IX.

    Say what you want about TPM, but it had the best light saber fight in the entire SW oeuvre... even better than Luke vs DV in TESB.
    That's like saying Ty Detmer was an even quarterback than Brett Engemann.
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  27. #747

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Say what you want about TPM, but it had the best light saber fight in the entire SW oeuvre... even better than Luke vs DV in TESB.
    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    The saber fight and the music in Episode I are what make it watchable.

  28. #748
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    In the theater now awaiting the last jedi.

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  29. #749
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    In the theater now awaiting the last jedi.
    Did you save him a seat?
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  30. #750

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Did you save him a seat?
    That was hilarious.

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