For those thinking of going to law school

[ERCougar]

How about almost $500K in debt to become a family doctor?

Very bad decision.
And very avoidable.
Is this your BIL you were talking about? I know it's more expensive to go to a foreign medical school, but he's living pretty high to rack up that kind of debt.

[CardiacCoug]

How about almost $500K in debt to become a family doctor?

Yeah, I can't believe how out of control the debt is for a lot of the students and residents who work with us. I was freaked out over $60K of debt (now paid off ) and all the kids today are talking multiple hundreds of thousands in debt. It's crazy.

Apparently there is something in the Affordable Care Act to help doctors pay no more than 10% of their income or so, at least while still in training. There are residents making around $43K and their student loan payments would be $2000 per month. So if they were to pay their loans during residency, they would be working 80 hours per week and netting $19K or so. Nuts.

[LA Ute]

S&P Warns Student Loans May Be The Next Bubble To Burst In US Economy

[TripletDaddy]

Very bad decision.
And very avoidable.
Is this your BIL you were talking about? I know it's more expensive to go to a foreign medical school, but he's living pretty high to rack up that kind of debt.

Yes. Now he is talking about maybe going through the air force to help pay down some of it? Although he isn't sure he will qualify for it.

He had to do some Masters program at the foreign med school, so that also added to the debt. Then they wanted to live "in New York" for the final two years of med school. One of his other options was Bakersfield, CA. I can't say I would choose Bakersfield over NYC, but the cost of living isn't even comparable, especially when you are living 100% off student loans. The odd thing was that they aren't even in NYC, they are in New Jersey, about 45 minutes from Manhattan. He only received one offer for residency and it is basically in the same hospital, so the cost of living remains really high for them for the next several years. When he is all done, he estimates to be close to $500k.

I don't know what you fancypants docs make but I imagine that you all do quite well, and deservedly so. He is saying that a family doc will make around $150k right out of residency. That just isn't enough to justify that kind of debt. And what is the ceiling for the average family doc? How much can they really hope to make? Frankly, I don't know how they will ever catch up assuming he is correct. That just isn't enough money when you also have a wife and three kids. They walk right into what is the equivalent of a major house payment in the form of a student loan payment.

I would be terrified. When I graduated from law school, I had around 25k in student loans from undergrad and law school. I was terrified. Whoops.

[Pheidippides]

Yes. Now he is talking about maybe going through the air force to help pay down some of it? Although he isn't sure he will qualify for it.

He had to do some Masters program at the foreign med school, so that also added to the debt. Then they wanted to live "in New York" for the final two years of med school. One of his other options was Bakersfield, CA. I can't say I would choose Bakersfield over NYC, but the cost of living isn't even comparable, especially when you are living 100% off student loans. The odd thing was that they aren't even in NYC, they are in New Jersey, about 45 minutes from Manhattan. He only received one offer for residency and it is basically in the same hospital, so the cost of living remains really high for them for the next several years. When he is all done, he estimates to be close to $500k.

I don't know what you fancypants docs make but I imagine that you all do quite well, and deservedly so. He is saying that a family doc will make around $150k right out of residency. That just isn't enough to justify that kind of debt. And what is the ceiling for the average family doc? How much can they really hope to make? Frankly, I don't know how they will ever catch up assuming he is correct. That just isn't enough money when you also have a wife and three kids. They walk right into what is the equivalent of a major house payment in the form of a student loan payment.

I would be terrified. When I graduated from law school, I had around 25k in student loans from undergrad and law school. I was terrified. Whoops.

I had about $150k when I graduated law school. It was a struggle at first to deal with that much debt, and I graduated in a decent market with a ridiculously high paying job. We've since paid a lot of that down, and I don't regret the decision. Would I do it again? Yes - if you give me the same set of circumstances. I have all sorts of doors open to me and have been able to manage the debt load, although I paid a steep price to do so for the first five years of my career. We had run the numbers before we accepted and they worked as we thought.

I would not do it in the environment we see now. I am the beneficiary of good timing.

With all due respect, your BIL is a financial moron.

[SeattleUte]

Law and medicine are like anything else. People are better off if they do it because they love it, or if they do whatever aspect or correlation of it they love, and their primary purpose is a job well done and helping people. Even more, ultimately I regard these professions as a calling. The unhappy participants are those who see no spiritual reward in the work. These professions pay well enough, but if money is the be all and end all, there are better more efficient ways to get there.

[LA Ute]

Law and medicine are like anything else. People are better off if they do it because they love it, or if they do whatever aspect or correlation of it they love, and their primary purpose is a job well done and helping people. Even more, ultimately I regard these professions as a calling. The unhappy participants are those who see no spiritual reward in the work. These professions pay well enough, but if money is the be all and end all, there are better more efficient ways to get there.

[ERCougar]

Law and medicine are like anything else. People are better off if they do it because they love it, or if they do whatever aspect or correlation of it they love, and their primary purpose is a job well done and helping people. Even more, ultimately I regard these professions as a calling. The unhappy participants are those who see no spiritual reward in the work. These professions pay well enough, but if money is the be all and end all, there are better more efficient ways to get there.

Completely agree.

I tried adding my thoughts, but really don't have much to add to what you've said here. Well said.

[calicoug]

Answer: No.

I really don't know what in the market people are seeing that suggests law school is a good idea right now. Unless you have a good scholarship (or other source of funding) or have a clear job opportunity available after school, it just seems like a really, really poor economic decision.

[calicoug]

Law and medicine are like anything else. People are better off if they do it because they love it, or if they do whatever aspect or correlation of it they love, and their primary purpose is a job well done and helping people. Even more, ultimately I regard these professions as a calling. The unhappy participants are those who see no spiritual reward in the work. These professions pay well enough, but if money is the be all and end all, there are better more efficient ways to get there.

I agree, although for those who want to do it because they love it, I think the economic reality presently is upside down for them where they aren't likely to be able to afford it absent something like a scholarship.

[All-American]

Also. Studying for the bar sucks. Probably not as much as taking the bar, though. I'll be able to confirm that in two days.

[Pheidippides]

Also. Studying for the bar sucks. Probably not as much as taking the bar, though. I'll be able to confirm that in two days.

I'd rather take it than study for it, having done it twice in two moderately hard to very hard states. At least you know when the test is over.

[UtahDan]

Also. Studying for the bar sucks. Probably not as much as taking the bar, though. I'll be able to confirm that in two days.

Which one?

[All-American]

Which one?

Illinois.

I can confirm that the essay portion sucks. I anticipate the multiple choice day sucking somewhat less, but not a great deal.

[UtahDan]

Illinois.

I can confirm that the essay portion sucks. I anticipate the multiple choice day sucking somewhat less, but not a great deal.

Good luck!