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Thread: Thanks, Provo!

  1. #121
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    Is that pizza place Slab still around? If so, Thanks, Provo! That was legit.
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  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    That was my first reaction. But if you could create a large mass of premium real estate in the middle of one of the fast growing places in the nation? Might be able to pull it off.
    I'm not saying the proposed project is a pipe dream. I'm saying that if it's going to take $6B to dredge the lake an average of 1-2 feet, then dredging it 5-10' is a pipe dream.
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    That was my first reaction. But if you could create a large mass of premium real estate in the middle of one of the fast growing places in the nation? Might be able to pull it off.
    Yeah... and California might actually have an high speed train that is fast and under budget too!
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  4. #124
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    This is a private project. If you were a true libertarian you would be all for it.
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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    This is a private project. If you were a true libertarian you would be all for it.
    In that case... they might be able to pull it off and be featured on an upcoming episode of Megastructures!

    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
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    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
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  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Where did you get that number?

    I have looked at the details in a while, but some areas will be dredged deeper than others. It involves causeways to deal with winds and currents. The dredged material will be used to build up the land. Also, the state already has a dredging project that is launching soon. All the harbors and surrounding areas will be dredged first.
    I pulled it right out of my arse. The boating experience would . be much better if the thing were 12-20' deep. Especially wake surfing which is about all anyone wants to do anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka View Post
    I pulled it right out of my arse. The boating experience would . be much better if the thing were 12-20' deep. Especially wake surfing which is about all anyone wants to do anymore.
    Yes dredging uniformly by that amount would not make much of a difference. Which is exactly why nobody’s going to spend $6 billion to do that.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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    Adobe isn't in Provo, it's in Lehi. Just sayin'...

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
    Adobe isn't in Provo, it's in Lehi. Just sayin'...
    Provo METRO area. So, yes, Adobe is in Provo (MSA)

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    Chronic Poseur USUC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clackamascoug View Post
    I'm no Phd ground water management... but in a nutshell... the deeper the water of a fresh water lake, the healthier it is... Utah Lake is so filled with silt, that it's pristine nature has diminished over time. If you tripled the depth of the lake with dredging, and put an Indian Casino in the middle of it (to pay for it)... stock the lake with Native German Browns... the lake would return to a pristine state for a couple of centuries.
    I assume the buildup of silt has been occurring for the past 10,000 years, but has this been compounded by human activity over the past 150 years? According to some article I read years ago, cutthroat trout was quite common in the lake when the Mormon settlers arrived. But I can't imagine trout thriving in the warm murky water. So it must have been deeper 150 years ago.

    I realize that dredging the lake to 20 feet deep is a budgetary pipe dream, but if Utah Lake was a "pristine" freshwater lake there would literally be no better place to live... given that the pollution problem is solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by USUC View Post
    I assume the buildup of silt has been occurring for the past 10,000 years, but has this been compounded by human activity over the past 150 years? According to some article I read years ago, cutthroat trout was quite common in the lake when the Mormon settlers arrived. But I can't imagine trout thriving in the warm murky water. So it must have been deeper 150 years ago.

    I realize that dredging the lake to 20 feet deep is a budgetary pipe dream, but if Utah Lake was a "pristine" freshwater lake there would literally be no better place to live... given that the pollution problem is solved.
    I don't think the depth has changed much. You get a lot of phosphates and nitrates that run into the lake and cause algae. Also, invasive species of fish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I don't think the depth has changed much. You get a lot of phosphates and nitrates that run into the lake and cause algae. Also, invasive species of fish.
    Thats what I was asking about above. How does dredging and building causeways, etc., eliminate the problem from nitrates and phosphates?
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I don't think the depth has changed much. You get a lot of phosphates and nitrates that run into the lake and cause algae. Also, invasive species of fish.
    I am not sure who thought it was a good idea to throw in some carp (back in 1800's) but that is like 90% of the fish now in that lake. Not to mention the city of Provo was still dumping raw sewage into that lake late into the 60's. It is pretty messed up, Dude.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USUC View Post
    I assume the buildup of silt has been occurring for the past 10,000 years, but has this been compounded by human activity over the past 150 years? According to some article I read years ago, cutthroat trout was quite common in the lake when the Mormon settlers arrived. But I can't imagine trout thriving in the warm murky water. So it must have been deeper 150 years ago.

    I realize that dredging the lake to 20 feet deep is a budgetary pipe dream, but if Utah Lake was a "pristine" freshwater lake there would literally be no better place to live... given that the pollution problem is solved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    I am not sure who thought it was a good idea to throw in some carp (back in 1800's) but that is like 90% of the fish now in that lake. Not to mention the city of Provo was still dumping raw sewage into that lake late into the 60's. It is pretty messed up, Dude.
    I went to the Utah Lake festival a few years ago and what the DWR people there told me was that when the pioneers moved into the valley, they decided to plant carp in Utah lake as a food source. Little did they know that the carp would tear up the bottom of the lake, eat the plants off the bottom that help filter things, and make the lake a poor habitat for the trout and june suckers that lived there.

    So that's the story - it isn't necessarily about the depth of the water as far as why it's murky now. It has more to do with the carp. And - I suppose - there could be added elements from pollution over that time as well. But, from what they were describing to me, the biggest "pollutant" was the pioneers who put those carp in there to begin with.

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    Chronic Poseur USUC's Avatar
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    Damnit, this thread has sent me down too many Utah Lake rabbit holes this morning while I should be working. As Uncle Ted noted, the carp are by far the biggest problem to the health of the lake. As of last year, this was the status of the almost decade old plan to remove 5 million pounds of carp a year. http://www.heraldextra.com/news/loca...23385f3af.html

    Carp are 90% of the biomass of the lake? That is absolutely insane. Carp are an issue all over the world, hasn't anyone come up with some sort of genetically engineered carp to release and seal their impending doom?

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by USUC View Post
    Damnit, this thread has sent me down too many Utah Lake rabbit holes this morning while I should be working. As Uncle Ted noted, the carp are by far the biggest problem to the health of the lake. As of last year, this was the status of the almost decade old plan to remove 5 million pounds of carp a year. http://www.heraldextra.com/news/loca...23385f3af.html

    Carp are 90% of the biomass of the lake? That is absolutely insane. Carp are an issue all over the world, hasn't anyone come up with some sort of genetically engineered carp to release and seal their impending doom?
    Yeah, Utah Lake carp are like the wild hogs of Texas... but at least Texans are making a business out of the problem down here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USUC View Post
    Damnit, this thread has sent me down too many Utah Lake rabbit holes this morning while I should be working. As Uncle Ted noted, the carp are by far the biggest problem to the health of the lake. As of last year, this was the status of the almost decade old plan to remove 5 million pounds of carp a year. http://www.heraldextra.com/news/loca...23385f3af.html

    Carp are 90% of the biomass of the lake? That is absolutely insane. Carp are an issue all over the world, hasn't anyone come up with some sort of genetically engineered carp to release and seal their impending doom?
    One of the main reason reasons they are removing carp is to protect the June Sucker.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Thats what I was asking about above. How does dredging and building causeways, etc., eliminate the problem from nitrates and phosphates?
    Like I said, the water quality is based on a variety of factors. Nutrients are just one factor. Depth impacts the turbidity which impacts how much light comes in and it impact the water temps. Changing the depths will have a huge impact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    I am not sure who thought it was a good idea to throw in some carp (back in 1800's) but that is like 90% of the fish now in that lake. Not to mention the city of Provo was still dumping raw sewage into that lake late into the 60's. It is pretty messed up, Dude.
    Thanks for the random link. Good thing they stopped several decades ago.
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  20. #140
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    If only we had a professional fisheries biologist on the board who could weigh in here...
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    My solution money be damned:

    Divert the Provo River for a season and drain the lake. We can call it Operation Carp Be Gone.

    No need to dredge just bulldoze the crap out of the bottom of the lake. Use some of the dirt to build the island community.

    Demolish Eagle Mountain City Center. Dump rest of dirt on demolished remains and allow nature to take over. Do not allow Eagle Mountain to rebuild City Center and relocate their city offices close to The Ranches. Better yet let Saratoga Springs annex The Ranches and surrounding communities and un-incoprporate Eagle Mountain City. We can call this: Operation Relocate Goatnapper's Vacation Home to a Better City.

    Divert Provo River back into Utah Lake and restock with awesome fish with names ending in trout.

    Build Shaka's new home complete with a killer boathouse on the best plot in the new island community.

    Provide JL with a powerful telescope so he can jealously watch Shaka and his harem wakesurf.

  22. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
    Adobe isn't in Provo, it's in Lehi. Just sayin'...
    Lehis new Mayor Mark Johnson, pointed this out and contacted the author of the article.
    *Banned*

  23. #143
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cougjunkie View Post
    Lehis new Mayor Mark Johnson, pointed this out and contacted the author of the article.
    That’s funny. Did he also sign a petition against the NYT obit writer?
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  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    One of the main reason reasons they are removing carp is to protect the June Sucker.
    June Sucker? Sounds like yet another version of a carp. How do they taste?

    When I was growing up there were a ton of carp in the parts of a nearby river... We would go out on a railroad bridge over the river and shoot them in the head with a 22 rifle when they can up to suck air. We call them "suckers" too.
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  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka View Post
    My solution money be damned:

    Divert the Provo River for a season and drain the lake. We can call it Operation Carp Be Gone.

    No need to dredge just bulldoze the crap out of the bottom of the lake. Use some of the dirt to build the island community.

    Demolish Eagle Mountain City Center. Dump rest of dirt on demolished remains and allow nature to take over. Do not allow Eagle Mountain to rebuild City Center and relocate their city offices close to The Ranches. Better yet let Saratoga Springs annex The Ranches and surrounding communities and un-incoprporate Eagle Mountain City. We can call this: Operation Relocate Goatnapper's Vacation Home to a Better City.

    Divert Provo River back into Utah Lake and restock with awesome fish with names ending in trout.

    Build Shaka's new home complete with a killer boathouse on the best plot in the new island community.

    Provide JL with a powerful telescope so he can jealously watch Shaka and his harem wakesurf.
    I like it! That June Sucker doesn't end with "trout" so, yeah, kill them off too.

    If they did this I would be tempted to buy a summer lake house next to yours so I can wave at JL while sipping a cool beverage on the beach.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  26. #146
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka View Post
    My solution money be damned:

    Divert the Provo River for a season and drain the lake. We can call it Operation Carp Be Gone.

    No need to dredge just bulldoze the crap out of the bottom of the lake. Use some of the dirt to build the island community.

    Demolish Eagle Mountain City Center. Dump rest of dirt on demolished remains and allow nature to take over. Do not allow Eagle Mountain to rebuild City Center and relocate their city offices close to The Ranches. Better yet let Saratoga Springs annex The Ranches and surrounding communities and un-incoprporate Eagle Mountain City. We can call this: Operation Relocate Goatnapper's Vacation Home to a Better City.

    Divert Provo River back into Utah Lake and restock with awesome fish with names ending in trout.

    Build Shaka's new home complete with a killer boathouse on the best plot in the new island community.

    Provide JL with a powerful telescope so he can jealously watch Shaka and his harem wakesurf.
    That's funny. Divert the provo river, hobble creek, SF river, etc. and while we are at it, use whatever magic voodoo we are using to "divert" those rivers and divert all the groundwater that goes into the lake through the bottom and springs and seeps on the edges.

    Reminds me of when we have an inversion and someone asks "Why don't they just build a big fan to blow out all the bad air?".

    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  27. #147
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    I like it! That June Sucker doesn't end with "trout" so, yeah, kill them off too.

    If they did this I would be tempted to buy a summer lake house next to yours so I can wave at JL while sipping a cool beverage on the beach.
    June sucker = utah's version of the delta smelt.

    I am sympathetic and supportive of the endangered species act but we have to figure out a way to get some balance. Put a bunch of suckers in a tank, use rotenone to kill all the carp and reintroduce the june sucker. Might not save the sucker, but it seems like a much better long term solution. I would think killing off the carp would have lots of positive environmental impacts. But maybe the late is too big for treatment.
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  28. #148
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    I say they still keep the name Operation Carp-be-gone, though. I think they're currently selling carp to mink farms or something to keep the numbers down. I wonder if they can't just get rid of all the life in one fell swoop and then re-introduce the native species...
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  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    That's funny. Divert the provo river, hobble creek, SF river, etc. and while we are at it, use whatever magic voodoo we are using to "divert" those rivers and divert all the groundwater that goes into the lake through the bottom and springs and seeps on the edges.

    Reminds me of when we have an inversion and someone asks "Why don't they just build a big fan to blow out all the bad air?".


    I have an idea... how about they install some big, yuge pumps and just pump the Utah Lake water out into the desert? https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...h-and-dry.html
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  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    June sucker = utah's version of the delta smelt.
    Yep... Creek is a prophet.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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