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Thread: Lance Armstrong is a dope

  1. #1
    Senior Member dabrockster's Avatar
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    Default Lance Armstrong is a dope

    Looks like they are going to go after his 7 wins at the Tour de France.. How many times are they going to try and do this??

    http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling/...charged-doping

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by dabrockster View Post
    Looks like they are going to go after his 7 wins at the Tour de France.. How many times are they going to try and do this??

    http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling/...charged-doping
    While I think he probably doped there is no direct evidence that he did. Until they can prove it with a positive test they need to lay off the guy. This is getting old.

  3. #3
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    The USADA letter doesn't cite specific examples of his doping, but says the charges are based on evidence gathered in an investigation of Armstrong's teams, including witnesses who aren't named in the letter.
    As a result of the charges, the World Triathlon Corporation has suspended Armstrong, who recently resumed his career as a triathlete, pending resolution of the case. He is currently able to compete in non-WTC events.
    He's suspended because of an accusation that has no specific examples of his doping?
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    Senior Member dabrockster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    He's suspended because of an accusation that has no specific examples of his doping?
    The witch hunt should be over.. The fact it has impacted his current goals is sad...

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    Senior Member SteelBlue's Avatar
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    Hincapie's leaked grand jury testimony (to CBS) sealed it for me. I think Lance cheated. If he did, I don't see why it shouldn't be punished in the sporting realm. I oppose criminal prosecution, and haven't ever understood the point of that with steroids and athletes.

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    I'm bored with this. While I think he may have, apparently no one in the world can prove it, so it is getting quite tiresome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelBlue View Post
    Hincapie's leaked grand jury testimony (to CBS) sealed it for me. I think Lance cheated. If he did, I don't see why it shouldn't be punished in the sporting realm. I oppose criminal prosecution, and haven't ever understood the point of that with steroids and athletes.
    Agreed.

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    I have given Armstrong the benefit of doubt for a long time. I tend to think he is a genetic freak, and if he did dope, it only helped 'around the edges'. I also want to give him some leeway, since he has passed hundreds of tests.

    But it sounds like there is new information, not just the older stuff that's been trotted out ad nauseum. From ESPN:

    "The letter also says blood collections obtained by cycling's governing body in 2009 and '10 are "fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions." Armstrong came out of retirement to race in the Tour de France those two years."

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    BYU Delenda Est Mormon Red Death's Avatar
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    Lance Armstrong
    Everyone always asks me what I am "on". I'll tell you what I'm "on". I'm on my bike bustin my ass six hours a day. That's what I'm "on".
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    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    I have given Armstrong the benefit of doubt for a long time. I tend to think he is a genetic freak, and if he did dope, it only helped 'around the edges'. I also want to give him some leeway, since he has passed hundreds of tests.

    But it sounds like there is new information, not just the older stuff that's been trotted out ad nauseum. From ESPN:

    "The letter also says blood collections obtained by cycling's governing body in 2009 and '10 are "fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions." Armstrong came out of retirement to race in the Tour de France those two years."
    I am very skeptical of that claim. Fully consistent with is usually bureaucrat speak for hematocrit levels that are at but not over the levels set as limits. It does not mean detection of an artifact of autologous doping, for example. Moreover, in 2010 WADA had started the biological passport program, I believe, to which LA submitted, and they set levels out of competition, meaning a manipulation should be pretty easily shown AT THE TIME but no one said anything then.

    I am not here taking the position that he was clean, but that statement is very, very suspect in my mind.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  11. #11

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    As a die-hard SF Giants fan who listened endlessly to the world piling on Barry Bonds, who had never failed a blood test, but was surely guilty because he had a big head, it's strange to hear now that everyone wants to give Lance Armstrong a free pass. I'm not saying it's a cancer thing or a racial thing, but if Lance Armstrong had two nuts and was black, nobody would be willing to let this slide.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I am very skeptical of that claim. Fully consistent with is usually bureaucrat speak for hematocrit levels that are at but not over the levels set as limits. It does not mean detection of an artifact of autologous doping, for example. Moreover, in 2010 WADA had started the biological passport program, I believe, to which LA submitted, and they set levels out of competition, meaning a manipulation should be pretty easily shown AT THE TIME but no one said anything then.

    I am not here taking the position that he was clean, but that statement is very, very suspect in my mind.
    I hear you. It's an inexact science when you can't detect a substance, but only it's effects on the body. But they are busting other riders for similar hematocrit levels. Sometimes it's hard not to think there isn't a fire when smoke is around.

    I would love for Armstrong to be clean, and I think that's still a possibility. But given the past history, I don't blame anyone for not believing him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Non Sequitur View Post
    As a die-hard SF Giants fan who listened endlessly to the world piling on Barry Bonds, who had never failed a blood test, but was surely guilty because he had a big head, it's strange to hear now that everyone wants to give Lance Armstrong a free pass. I'm not saying it's a cancer thing or a racial thing, but if Lance Armstrong had two nuts and was black, nobody would be willing to let this slide.
    IMO, I don't think it's a racial thing; personality goes a long way. If Barry Bonds were white, I think the public reaction (outside SF) remains the same. Perhaps there's a sympathy quotient with Lance Armstrong beating cancer.
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    RIP CUF DU Ute's Avatar
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    This whole thing seems silly. Would any of the ten top runners up in any of the years Armstrong won be found clean if subject to the same intense scrutiny?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Non Sequitur View Post
    As a die-hard SF Giants fan who listened endlessly to the world piling on Barry Bonds, who had never failed a blood test, but was surely guilty because he had a big head, it's strange to hear now that everyone wants to give Lance Armstrong a free pass. I'm not saying it's a cancer thing or a racial thing, but if Lance Armstrong had two nuts and was black, nobody would be willing to let this slide.
    I think they both doped.

    It's pretty well documented regarding Bonds in the "Game of Shadows" book.

  16. #16
    Senior Member SteelBlue's Avatar
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    Hincapies leaked grand jury testimony should seal the deal for just about anyone, shouldn't it? I suppose the leak could have been a complete fabrication, but history shows that such leaks are a technique Novitsky used frequently to gain public support. Is it unethical? I think so. But I can't recall any of his leaks turning out to be false, can any of you?

    I remember seeing Hincapie interviewed briefly on the day the leak was broadcast by CBS News. He didn't say that the leak was false, only that he didn't want to drag his sport through the mud, and that the sport had come a long way since then. In later interviews he simply said "I never said a word to CBS News." That was the truth, but of course nobody claimed he had. It was his way to show that the story contained an unethical leak and to sound like he was denying the leak, something he's never done to my knowledge.

    I think you have to believe that leak was a total fabrication to believe that Lance was clean. Hincapie and Armstrong are as close as brothers and the only way Hincapie would give up the truth on Lance like that would be under threat of prosecution, a technique for which Novitsky is well known in his PED hunts. I think Novitsky is a slimeball, but unfortunately I think his methods have yielded the truth.

  17. #17
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Non Sequitur View Post
    As a die-hard SF Giants fan who listened endlessly to the world piling on Barry Bonds, who had never failed a blood test, but was surely guilty because he had a big head, it's strange to hear now that everyone wants to give Lance Armstrong a free pass. I'm not saying it's a cancer thing or a racial thing, but if Lance Armstrong had two nuts and was black, nobody would be willing to let this slide.
    I want to clear my name of your heinous accusation. Here is an old CG thread in which creekster and archibald get really offended because I knew even then that Lance was doping.

    Also, as a side note, this thread is a classic example of how vicious creekster used to be when he did not get his way. he has mellowed, I will give you that, but I think I was one of the few brave enough to disagree with him back in the day.

    http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20989
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Non Sequitur View Post
    As a die-hard SF Giants fan who listened endlessly to the world piling on Barry Bonds, who had never failed a blood test, but was surely guilty because he had a big head, it's strange to hear now that everyone wants to give Lance Armstrong a free pass. I'm not saying it's a cancer thing or a racial thing, but if Lance Armstrong had two nuts and was black, nobody would be willing to let this slide.
    It takes no nuts and being black to be reviled as much as Bonds.
    Last edited by Donuthole; 06-15-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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    RIP CUF DU Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    I want to clear my name of your heinous accusation. Here is an old CG thread in which creekster and archibald get really offended because I knew even then that Lance was doping.

    Also, as a side note, this thread is a classic example of how vicious creekster used to be when he did not get his way. he has mellowed, I will give you that, but I think I was one of the few brave enough to disagree with him back in the day.

    http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20989
    Huh. Creekster types better when he's angry. Go figure.
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  20. #20
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Say it aint so, Lance.
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  21. #21
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    lol.

    Lance is a doper. Shocker.
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  22. #22

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    [youtube]gWBTNPTAJTc[/youtube]

    he gets a free pass from me.
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    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by camleish View Post
    [youtube]gWBTNPTAJTc[/youtube]

    he gets a free pass from me.
    Seriously? He was absolutely ruthless in keeping people quiet about his doping, threatening to ruin careers if they didn't comply.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    Seriously? He was absolutely ruthless in keeping people quiet about his doping, threatening to ruin careers if they didn't comply.
    that's a different issue than the doping itself. but i agree that the cover up is wrong.
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  25. #25
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Creekster owes me an apology.
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    Can someone explain what this means for me please? Thanks.

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    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colly Wolly View Post
    Can someone explain what this means for me please? Thanks.
    I've wondered the same thing in pretty much every political thread this year.
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  28. #28
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    Creekster owes me an apology.
    lol Creekster has been defending Lance? Creekster is ever the loyal dog, however lost the cause.
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  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    lol Creekster has been defending Lance? Creekster is ever the loyal dog, however lost the cause.
    It was a thread from fours years ago. And creekster didn't really defend Lance other than to say that he thought there was less than a 90% chance that Lance doped. Creekster didn't even really engage much about Armstrong's doping.

  30. #30
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    Creekster owes me an apology.
    Really? What on earth for? Point out why and if I do owe it you will get one. But I read through that thread on cougar guard and didn't see a thing I would change (except maybe tone here and there). So, just like in 2008 in that thread, point out what you think I said that merits an apology and, if you are right, I will give you one.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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