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  • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Everyone here is landing in the Tel. K for running Wuap out of the Church. You guys are screwed! I can hardly think of a worse transgression, other than the one that qualifies yoiu for OD. I don’t know how you can redeem this kind of thing.
    Not running him out. Just holding the door open for him to leave... which coincidentally is also open for you to return! Come back to the fold Brother SU!
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay
    Almost everything you post is snarky, smug, condescending, or just downright mean-spirited. --Jeffrey Lebowski

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump
    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Solon View Post
      Am I the only one here who looked up the definition of jobsworth?
      .
      You're probably the first one that bothered.
      PLesa excuse the tpyos.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
        Not running him out. Just holding the door open for him to leave... which coincidentally is also open for you to return! Come back to the fold Brother SU!
        Just cheering his exit.

        Comment


        • I am truly sorry to see Wuap go. But I have never understood why the fact that people offended him made him question his willingness to be active in the church. I have run across all sorts of nutty from uber conservative (my old Utah ward) to uber liberal (Berkeley ward). I have no doubt that there are more than a few people out there who have some horror story based upon my own conduct, even though I have never meant to offend anyone. I think we tend to see what we want to see and we react to justify our own predisposition.

          I hope Wuap, and all of us, can find the place that leads to happiness.
          PLesa excuse the tpyos.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by creekster View Post
            I am truly sorry to see Wuap go. But I have never understood why the fact that people offended him made him question his willingness to be active in the church. I have run across all sorts of nutty from uber conservative (my old Utah ward) to uber liberal (Berkeley ward). I have no doubt that there are more than a few people out there who have some horror story based upon my own conduct, even though I have never meant to offend anyone. I think we tend to see what we want to see and we react to justify our own predisposition.

            I hope Wuap, and all of us, can find the place that leads to happiness.
            Wise words, primate.
            "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
            "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
            - SeattleUte

            Comment


            • Originally posted by creekster View Post
              I am truly sorry to see Wuap go. But I have never understood why the fact that people offended him made him question his willingness to be active in the church. I have run across all sorts of nutty from uber conservative (my old Utah ward) to uber liberal (Berkeley ward). I have no doubt that there are more than a few people out there who have some horror story based upon my own conduct, even though I have never meant to offend anyone. I think we tend to see what we want to see and we react to justify our own predisposition.

              I hope Wuap, and all of us, can find the place that leads to happiness.
              Yeah, what the hell. Wap stays fairly active here and we don't even send out ministering brothers or sisters to minister to him.
              Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

              For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

              Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

              Comment


              • I spent two years going to church in South Carolina, and I can say with some degree of certainty that it has some of the most batshit crazy members I've ever seen. I used to think it was just because I was outside the Mo Corridor, but after 15 years of traveling the country and attending different churches I've never seen crazy like South Carolina Mormon crazy. I thought when I returned 20 years after my mission that it would be different - nope. It's a special breed of sanctimony that comes from membership in the only true church AND the only true state (think Confederate flag at the capitol). They're certainly not all this way, and not even mostly this way; it's more of a few bad apples type of thing. Still, I have no doubt that wuap has endless stories and they're all true.

                With all that said, wuap is one of the most kind-hearted people I've ever met. As I've said about others, he may not need the church to help him be a good person, but the church members are certainly better off with his participation. Wuap, I wish you could just shrug things off, compadre, but regardless, I wish you the best.
                sigpic
                "Outlined against a blue, gray
                October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
                Grantland Rice, 1924

                Comment


                • I would love to read that 10,000 word response from the SP counselor.

                  For the record, the temple recommend questions are designed for a self evaluation. They are yes-no questions and ecclesiastical leaders are explicitly instructed to not go beyond the questions. People tend to interpret some of the questions differently and that is fine. Sounds like this SP counselor has a fairly rigid interpretation. I can't imagine why anyone would care enough to follow up and argue with him about it to the point that he feels compelled to write a dissertation in response. Seems like axe-grinding to me. But whatever.
                  "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                  "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                  "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                    I would love to read that 10,000 word response from the SP counselor.

                    For the record, the temple recommend questions are designed for a self evaluation. They are yes-no questions and ecclesiastical leaders are explicitly instructed to not go beyond the questions. People tend to interpret some of the questions differently and that is fine. Sounds like this SP counselor has a fairly rigid interpretation. I can't imagine why anyone would care enough to follow up and argue with him about it to the point that he feels compelled to write a dissertation in response. Seems like axe-grinding to me. But whatever.
                    I've had people say "I'm affiliated with the Democrats. Is that OK?" or a more recent favorite is "I'm affiliated with the Boy Scouts."

                    Then we both laugh.

                    I've had a couple of people, who are more serious as far as questioning, say that they have a relative that is anti, or gay, or part of some organization, etc., that they interact with or "associate" with. And they're worried that this means they need to answer the question in the affirmative. So I've had some conversations with people about the concept of loving the sinner/apostate/angry ex while not necessarily agreeing with what they are doing at the time. In the end, I think they're relieved that going to family BBQ's their angry gay ex-Mormon uncle also attends will not keep them from getting a temple recommend.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Eddie View Post
                      I've had people say "I'm affiliated with the Democrats. Is that OK?" or a more recent favorite is "I'm affiliated with the Boy Scouts."

                      Then we both laugh.

                      I've had a couple of people, who are more serious as far as questioning, say that they have a relative that is anti, or gay, or part of some organization, etc., that they interact with or "associate" with. And they're worried that this means they need to answer the question in the affirmative. So I've had some conversations with people about the concept of loving the sinner/apostate/angry ex while not necessarily agreeing with what they are doing at the time. In the end, I think they're relieved that going to family BBQ's their angry gay ex-Mormon uncle also attends will not keep them from getting a temple recommend.
                      Depending on whether Eddie is a counselor to a bishop or the SP (or even a SP himself!), this could be a serious humblebrag.
                      "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                      "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                      - SeattleUte

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                        I would love to read that 10,000 word response from the SP counselor.

                        For the record, the temple recommend questions are designed for a self evaluation. They are yes-no questions and ecclesiastical leaders are explicitly instructed to not go beyond the questions...
                        So I’m okay telling my kids that they can refuse to answer any question about chastity beyond the standard question? (Provided there are no current issues, obviously)
                        sigpic
                        "Outlined against a blue, gray
                        October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
                        Grantland Rice, 1924

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by cowboy View Post
                          So I’m okay telling my kids that they can refuse to answer any question about chastity beyond the standard question? (Provided there are no current issues, obviously)
                          For a limited-use temple recommend? Absolutely.

                          Given the recent changes, you are also allowed to be present with the bishop and your child for all interviews if you wish.
                          "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                          "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                          "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by cowboy View Post
                            So I’m okay telling my kids that they can refuse to answer any question about chastity beyond the standard question? (Provided there are no current issues, obviously)
                            I don't even think they go there or say anything other than the phrase "law of chastity" anymore. Which is good. I always thought it was weird talking about your "sex life" as a teenager with your bishop.
                            "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Eddie View Post
                              I've had people say "I'm affiliated with the Democrats. Is that OK?" or a more recent favorite is "I'm affiliated with the Boy Scouts."

                              Then we both laugh.

                              I've had a couple of people, who are more serious as far as questioning, say that they have a relative that is anti, or gay, or part of some organization, etc., that they interact with or "associate" with. And they're worried that this means they need to answer the question in the affirmative. So I've had some conversations with people about the concept of loving the sinner/apostate/angry ex while not necessarily agreeing with what they are doing at the time. In the end, I think they're relieved that going to family BBQ's their angry gay ex-Mormon uncle also attends will not keep them from getting a temple recommend.
                              The church (via Elder Christofferson) has explicitly said that you can be pro-gay marriage and still hold a temple recommend.

                              http://archive.sltrib.com/article.ph...74&itype=CMSID

                              "We have individual members in the church with a variety of different opinions, beliefs and positions on these issues and other issues," Christofferson said. " ... In our view, it doesn't really become a problem unless someone is out attacking the church and its leaders — if that's a deliberate and persistent effort and trying to get others to follow them, trying to draw others away, trying to pull people, if you will, out of the church or away from its teachings and doctrines."
                              "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                              "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                              "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by cowboy View Post
                                I spent two years going to church in South Carolina, and I can say with some degree of certainty that it has some of the most batshit crazy members I've ever seen. I used to think it was just because I was outside the Mo Corridor, but after 15 years of traveling the country and attending different churches I've never seen crazy like South Carolina Mormon crazy. I thought when I returned 20 years after my mission that it would be different - nope. It's a special breed of sanctimony that comes from membership in the only true church AND the only true state (think Confederate flag at the capitol). They're certainly not all this way, and not even mostly this way; it's more of a few bad apples type of thing. Still, I have no doubt that wuap has endless stories and they're all true.

                                With all that said, wuap is one of the most kind-hearted people I've ever met. As I've said about others, he may not need the church to help him be a good person, but the church members are certainly better off with his participation. Wuap, I wish you could just shrug things off, compadre, but regardless, I wish you the best.
                                Yeah. I think Wuap would love my ward in Scottsdale. I have had zero experiences or conversations like the ones he always talks about; for example, we always do a joint Christmas program w the Lutheran church up the street and we are pretty progressive and politically diverse. Nobody talks about falling in line w anything politically- that would be very awkward. It's not his stake's way or the highway, I hope he comes to realize.
                                "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

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