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  1. #1531
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    So, the same guy who once scrambled his password and left, and now goes on a mean streak every few months is scolding me about the difference between taking and giving offense. I'm assuming that your inner dialogue is a millpond after reading this post then, through the power of Matthew 5--and valproate--of course.
    Ha! Who better than a self-absorbed dick to point out that you're being a complete putz?! You're welcome by the way.

    (Also, I'm mean all the time... or try to be at least.)



    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    I went to church in Costa Rica. While I was gone, a member of the stake presidency came and told my ward the following (my wife, very upset, messaged me):

    X implied in his talk today that if your political views differed from the church you couldn't answer the temple recommend question about affiliating with groups contrary to the church.

    I approached him for clarification. He took 10,000 words to basically say what she said in a sentence.
    OMG. Doubling down on the anecdotes I see. I'm sure you have an endless reservoir... the envy of anyone with only a millpond from which to draw.


    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    So, we're done. I no longer have the gumption to try and work for change from within. Yall have fun.
    Contrary to opinions expressed here... the Church won't miss you. And the members in your congregation have probably grown weary of your thinly veiled self-serving act and won't miss you either.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  2. #1532
    Royal Rooter Green Monstah's Avatar
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    Contrary to opinions expressed here... the Church won't miss you. And the members in your congregation have probably grown weary of your thinly veiled self-serving act and won't miss you either.
    Man, do you have a burr in your late-90s Benz bucket seat? You've countered his anecdotes with the only rhetorical device that carries less weight: assumptions.

    We've all gone toe-to-toe with Wuap before, but being mean spirited during times of faith transition is well below you.
    Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

    "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

  3. #1533

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Contrary to opinions expressed here... the Church won't miss you. And the members in your congregation have probably grown weary of your thinly veiled self-serving act and won't miss you either.
    OMG you are so mean!

  4. #1534

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    Wuap are you going to start cheering for Utah Utes now?

  5. #1535
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    Wuap, I wish i shared a ward with you. I am sorry you have such conservative leaders than rub you the wrong way. I am sure the ward is losing more than you are. I hope you find your way back someday, because of the good influence you would have on the youth.
    I'm already working with youth, and having a good influence on them, just not at church.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Monstah View Post
    This makes me sad. I get it, but it saddens me just the same.
    Don't be sad over me. It's wasted energy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post

    Contrary to opinions expressed here... the Church won't miss you. And the members in your congregation have probably grown weary of your thinly veiled self-serving act and won't miss you either.
    You're probably right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Monstah View Post
    Man, do you have a burr in your late-90s Benz bucket seat? You've countered his anecdotes with the only rhetorical device that carries less weight: assumptions.

    We've all gone toe-to-toe with Wuap before, but being mean spirited during times of faith transition is well below you.
    I grew up in a house with bipolar people. I'm good.

    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    Wuap are you going to start cheering for Utah Utes now?
    I have standards, you son-of-a-bitch.
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  6. #1536
    Local Character clackamascoug's Avatar
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    I like Waup... I understand from where he comes. On some level he knows I'm right about multiple dimensions and that he's playing out a scene in this one, and playing out another scene in another. In the eternities he'll stand in the circle with us as we pray.

    When poet puts pen to paper imagination breathes life, finding hearth and home.
    -Mid Summer's Night Dream


  7. #1537
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    I have standards, you son-of-a-bitch.


    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  8. #1538
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Monstah View Post
    Man, do you have a burr in your late-90s Benz bucket seat? You've countered his anecdotes with the only rhetorical device that carries less weight: assumptions.
    Someone backed into my 3 and I've been driving an effing Kia Optima for the last 10 days. Driving a Kia would fray anyone's nerves to the point of a nervous breakdown, so thank you for your support during this difficult time. I'll pass around a collection plate later.

    Presumptions, not assumptions. wuap is leveraging some anecdotes (some that are 30+ years old ffs) for sympathy. I'm tired of his whiny woe-is-me put-upon act and I PRESUME his fellow ward members are too. If wuap gonna sift himself out, then get busy and sift yourself out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Green Monstah View Post
    We've all gone toe-to-toe with Wuap before, but being mean spirited during times of faith transition is well below you.
    Depends on persepective. I'm just holding the door open for him to make it easier for him to exit (not necessarily pushing him out the door). Some people call that polite, even gallant. He's welcome by the way.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  9. #1539
    Explosivo Commando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    [/FONT][/COLOR]I approached him for clarification. He took 10,000 words to basically say what she said in a sentence. So, we're done. I no longer have the gumption to try and work for change from within. Yall have fun.
    Why not just say 'OK - agree to disagree?' I have had people say things to me at church that were basically pro-Trump anti-immigrant bullshit wrapped up in a halo of sanctimony and it made me want to monkey punch them in the throat. Then I remembered that I'm supposed to be the good guy and that they are probably really struggling intellectually/spiritually to say something in Christ's church so anti-Christian. As for the guy who talked about political views of the Church when the Church has no official political views? Confused at best; I wonder if Christ would be so muddled in his speech and direction. Doubt it. I guess we just remember we all have our strengths, and when you have the intellectual/spiritual advantage over a person called to lead, it's difficult to do anything but ignore them or walk away. Best wishes.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  10. #1540
    Senior Member Katy Lied's Avatar
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    now there'll be no one at church dressed like this:


  11. #1541

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post

    [/FONT][/COLOR]I approached him for clarification. He took 10,000 words to basically say what she said in a sentence. So, we're done. I no longer have the gumption to try and work for change from within. Yall have fun.
    If your reason for staying is trying to work for change from within, you are making the right call ditching the church. The changes in church culture will either be based on monetary or political pressure, it isn't coming from members of the church trying to make a different. You aren't going to make a difference on a top down structure that way, especially with the way the top is so set in their ways.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  12. #1542

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    Let me get this straight -- Funk and Wuap leave the church because they keep on running into assholes every Sunday?

    You don't say.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  13. #1543

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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    Let me get this straight -- Funk and Wuap leave the church because they keep on running into assholes every Sunday?

    You don't say.
    lol. Wuap is mad that someone took 10,000 words to say what could have been sent in a sentence.


  14. #1544
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Everyone here is landing in the Tel. K for running Wuap out of the Church. You guys are screwed! I can hardly think of a worse transgression, other than the one that qualifies yoiu for OD. I don’t know how you can redeem this kind of thing.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  15. #1545

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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    Let me get this straight -- Funk and Wuap leave the church because they keep on running into assholes every Sunday?

    You don't say.
    Running into assholes every Sunday wasn't the reason that I left the church.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  16. #1546
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Everyone here is landing in the Tel. K for running Wuap out of the Church. You guys are screwed! I can hardly think of a worse transgression, other than the one that qualifies yoiu for OD. I don’t know how you can redeem this kind of thing.
    Not running him out. Just holding the door open for him to leave... which coincidentally is also open for you to return! Come back to the fold Brother SU!
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  17. #1547
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    Am I the only one here who looked up the definition of jobsworth?
    .
    You're probably the first one that bothered.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  18. #1548

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Not running him out. Just holding the door open for him to leave... which coincidentally is also open for you to return! Come back to the fold Brother SU!
    Just cheering his exit.
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  19. #1549
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    I am truly sorry to see Wuap go. But I have never understood why the fact that people offended him made him question his willingness to be active in the church. I have run across all sorts of nutty from uber conservative (my old Utah ward) to uber liberal (Berkeley ward). I have no doubt that there are more than a few people out there who have some horror story based upon my own conduct, even though I have never meant to offend anyone. I think we tend to see what we want to see and we react to justify our own predisposition.

    I hope Wuap, and all of us, can find the place that leads to happiness.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  20. #1550

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I am truly sorry to see Wuap go. But I have never understood why the fact that people offended him made him question his willingness to be active in the church. I have run across all sorts of nutty from uber conservative (my old Utah ward) to uber liberal (Berkeley ward). I have no doubt that there are more than a few people out there who have some horror story based upon my own conduct, even though I have never meant to offend anyone. I think we tend to see what we want to see and we react to justify our own predisposition.

    I hope Wuap, and all of us, can find the place that leads to happiness.
    Wise words, primate.

  21. #1551
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I am truly sorry to see Wuap go. But I have never understood why the fact that people offended him made him question his willingness to be active in the church. I have run across all sorts of nutty from uber conservative (my old Utah ward) to uber liberal (Berkeley ward). I have no doubt that there are more than a few people out there who have some horror story based upon my own conduct, even though I have never meant to offend anyone. I think we tend to see what we want to see and we react to justify our own predisposition.

    I hope Wuap, and all of us, can find the place that leads to happiness.
    Yeah, what the hell. Wap stays fairly active here and we don't even send out ministering brothers or sisters to minister to him.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  22. #1552

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    I spent two years going to church in South Carolina, and I can say with some degree of certainty that it has some of the most batshit crazy members I've ever seen. I used to think it was just because I was outside the Mo Corridor, but after 15 years of traveling the country and attending different churches I've never seen crazy like South Carolina Mormon crazy. I thought when I returned 20 years after my mission that it would be different - nope. It's a special breed of sanctimony that comes from membership in the only true church AND the only true state (think Confederate flag at the capitol). They're certainly not all this way, and not even mostly this way; it's more of a few bad apples type of thing. Still, I have no doubt that wuap has endless stories and they're all true.

    With all that said, wuap is one of the most kind-hearted people I've ever met. As I've said about others, he may not need the church to help him be a good person, but the church members are certainly better off with his participation. Wuap, I wish you could just shrug things off, compadre, but regardless, I wish you the best.

    "Outlined against a blue, gray
    October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
    Grantland Rice, 1924

  23. #1553
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    I would love to read that 10,000 word response from the SP counselor.

    For the record, the temple recommend questions are designed for a self evaluation. They are yes-no questions and ecclesiastical leaders are explicitly instructed to not go beyond the questions. People tend to interpret some of the questions differently and that is fine. Sounds like this SP counselor has a fairly rigid interpretation. I can't imagine why anyone would care enough to follow up and argue with him about it to the point that he feels compelled to write a dissertation in response. Seems like axe-grinding to me. But whatever.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  24. #1554
    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I would love to read that 10,000 word response from the SP counselor.

    For the record, the temple recommend questions are designed for a self evaluation. They are yes-no questions and ecclesiastical leaders are explicitly instructed to not go beyond the questions. People tend to interpret some of the questions differently and that is fine. Sounds like this SP counselor has a fairly rigid interpretation. I can't imagine why anyone would care enough to follow up and argue with him about it to the point that he feels compelled to write a dissertation in response. Seems like axe-grinding to me. But whatever.
    I've had people say "I'm affiliated with the Democrats. Is that OK?" or a more recent favorite is "I'm affiliated with the Boy Scouts."

    Then we both laugh.

    I've had a couple of people, who are more serious as far as questioning, say that they have a relative that is anti, or gay, or part of some organization, etc., that they interact with or "associate" with. And they're worried that this means they need to answer the question in the affirmative. So I've had some conversations with people about the concept of loving the sinner/apostate/angry ex while not necessarily agreeing with what they are doing at the time. In the end, I think they're relieved that going to family BBQ's their angry gay ex-Mormon uncle also attends will not keep them from getting a temple recommend.

  25. #1555

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    I've had people say "I'm affiliated with the Democrats. Is that OK?" or a more recent favorite is "I'm affiliated with the Boy Scouts."

    Then we both laugh.

    I've had a couple of people, who are more serious as far as questioning, say that they have a relative that is anti, or gay, or part of some organization, etc., that they interact with or "associate" with. And they're worried that this means they need to answer the question in the affirmative. So I've had some conversations with people about the concept of loving the sinner/apostate/angry ex while not necessarily agreeing with what they are doing at the time. In the end, I think they're relieved that going to family BBQ's their angry gay ex-Mormon uncle also attends will not keep them from getting a temple recommend.
    Depending on whether Eddie is a counselor to a bishop or the SP (or even a SP himself!), this could be a serious humblebrag.

  26. #1556

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I would love to read that 10,000 word response from the SP counselor.

    For the record, the temple recommend questions are designed for a self evaluation. They are yes-no questions and ecclesiastical leaders are explicitly instructed to not go beyond the questions...
    So I’m okay telling my kids that they can refuse to answer any question about chastity beyond the standard question? (Provided there are no current issues, obviously)

    "Outlined against a blue, gray
    October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
    Grantland Rice, 1924

  27. #1557
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
    So I’m okay telling my kids that they can refuse to answer any question about chastity beyond the standard question? (Provided there are no current issues, obviously)
    For a limited-use temple recommend? Absolutely.

    Given the recent changes, you are also allowed to be present with the bishop and your child for all interviews if you wish.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  28. #1558
    Explosivo Commando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
    So I’m okay telling my kids that they can refuse to answer any question about chastity beyond the standard question? (Provided there are no current issues, obviously)
    I don't even think they go there or say anything other than the phrase "law of chastity" anymore. Which is good. I always thought it was weird talking about your "sex life" as a teenager with your bishop.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  29. #1559
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    I've had people say "I'm affiliated with the Democrats. Is that OK?" or a more recent favorite is "I'm affiliated with the Boy Scouts."

    Then we both laugh.

    I've had a couple of people, who are more serious as far as questioning, say that they have a relative that is anti, or gay, or part of some organization, etc., that they interact with or "associate" with. And they're worried that this means they need to answer the question in the affirmative. So I've had some conversations with people about the concept of loving the sinner/apostate/angry ex while not necessarily agreeing with what they are doing at the time. In the end, I think they're relieved that going to family BBQ's their angry gay ex-Mormon uncle also attends will not keep them from getting a temple recommend.
    The church (via Elder Christofferson) has explicitly said that you can be pro-gay marriage and still hold a temple recommend.

    http://archive.sltrib.com/article.ph...74&itype=CMSID

    "We have individual members in the church with a variety of different opinions, beliefs and positions on these issues and other issues," Christofferson said. " ... In our view, it doesn't really become a problem unless someone is out attacking the church and its leaders — if that's a deliberate and persistent effort and trying to get others to follow them, trying to draw others away, trying to pull people, if you will, out of the church or away from its teachings and doctrines."
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  30. #1560
    Explosivo Commando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
    I spent two years going to church in South Carolina, and I can say with some degree of certainty that it has some of the most batshit crazy members I've ever seen. I used to think it was just because I was outside the Mo Corridor, but after 15 years of traveling the country and attending different churches I've never seen crazy like South Carolina Mormon crazy. I thought when I returned 20 years after my mission that it would be different - nope. It's a special breed of sanctimony that comes from membership in the only true church AND the only true state (think Confederate flag at the capitol). They're certainly not all this way, and not even mostly this way; it's more of a few bad apples type of thing. Still, I have no doubt that wuap has endless stories and they're all true.

    With all that said, wuap is one of the most kind-hearted people I've ever met. As I've said about others, he may not need the church to help him be a good person, but the church members are certainly better off with his participation. Wuap, I wish you could just shrug things off, compadre, but regardless, I wish you the best.
    Yeah. I think Wuap would love my ward in Scottsdale. I have had zero experiences or conversations like the ones he always talks about; for example, we always do a joint Christmas program w the Lutheran church up the street and we are pretty progressive and politically diverse. Nobody talks about falling in line w anything politically- that would be very awkward. It's not his stake's way or the highway, I hope he comes to realize.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

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