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Thread: Boy Scouts reviewing Ban on Gays ...

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    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Default Boy Scouts reviewing Ban on Gays ...


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    Princeps Inter Pares
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    LDS moms no longer responsible for their sons' eagle projects. Win-win.
    τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

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    Heartless Bastard Indy Coug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    LDS moms no longer responsible for their sons' eagle projects. Win-win.
    Duty to God has been the Plan B for this inevitable eventuality.
    Everything in life is an approximation.

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    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Not sure it will be as much of an issue this time around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    Could this cause the church to sever it's ties with the Boy Scouts? Please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    Duty to God has been the Plan B for this inevitable eventuality.
    It sounded like they at considering allowing individual counsels to lift the ban. Would that cause the church to bail?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    Duty to God has been the Plan B for this inevitable eventuality.
    Yes, but let's just get on with it already. I'm sick to death of having to give lip service to both while semi-neglecting both at the same time (there truly isn't enough time in YM to dedicate to doing both properly, IMO).
    Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

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    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    this could be all a ploy to help reduce snickering at meetings where someone is receiving a Silver Beaver.


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    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    LDS moms no longer responsible for their sons' eagle projects. Win-win.
    But the BSA loses 30% of their national Friends of Scouting dough.
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
    ― W.H. Auden


    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
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    Heartless Bastard Indy Coug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    Yes, but let's just get on with it already. I'm sick to death of having to give lip service to both while semi-neglecting both at the same time (there truly isn't enough time in YM to dedicate to doing both properly, IMO).
    Amen to this.
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    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    Could this cause the church to sever it's ties with the Boy Scouts? Please.
    Oh God please!
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    Amen to this.
    It really is a problem. Mormons were already half-a$$ed Scouters anyway, and the new emphasis on DTG only made that worse. (I am not being critical about this, just stating a well-known fact. I wish we would just do one or the other well, or do them in some reasonable proportion.)
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
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    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
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    Suomalainen New Mexican Disaster's Avatar
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    Maybe my son will get to do scouting after all. If they get rid of their lame gay ban, then he could do it. Of course, that might have the church drop it, just so that we could have more inanity to deal with.

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    Senior Member lambdacoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    If they'd only allow atheists then I could get involved again with a clear conscience.

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    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    I wonder why it is an issue for Mo scouts at all? What percentage of Mo scout troops/varsity units are headed by someone in the ward that is called by the Bishop? In other words, no OUT gay man will be heading up a Mo troop anytime soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    I wonder why it is an issue for Mo scouts at all? What percentage of Mo scout troops/varsity units are headed by someone in the ward that is called by the Bishop? In other words, no OUT gay man will be heading up a Mo troop anytime soon.
    It's an issue of association, not implementation.
    Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

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    a day late/a dollar short Sullyute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    I wonder why it is an issue for Mo scouts at all? What percentage of Mo scout troops/varsity units are headed by someone in the ward that is called by the Bishop? In other words, no OUT gay man will be heading up a Mo troop anytime soon.
    Is there an unwritten (or possibly written) rule that people who experience SSA cannot serve in the young mens or young womans organization?
    "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

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    I particularly like this reader comment to the article:

    Boys need to learn the gay life style and see if it's for them. They can make it a merit badge.

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    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    I wonder why it is an issue for Mo scouts at all? What percentage of Mo scout troops/varsity units are headed by someone in the ward that is called by the Bishop? In other words, no OUT gay man will be heading up a Mo troop anytime soon.
    I don't know but I am guessing that the fear is that somehow the church will lose the freedom to call whomever it wishes as a scout leader. I don't know why that would be. Right now, in our council here, there is effectively a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which works. As long as chartered organizations get to choose their own leaders, I don't know why there would be an issue.
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
    ― W.H. Auden


    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    It's an issue of association, not implementation.
    This

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    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    Is there an unwritten (or possibly written) rule that people who experience SSA cannot serve in the young mens or young womans organization?
    I know the LDS Church does want Bishops to closer examine those individuals called to any positions dealing with youth, but I don't know if there is a specific set of guidelines.

    I do recall a few years ago that there was an emphasis on new members of a ward not being called to those positions until the Bishop got to know the individuals a little better.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    I wonder why it is an issue for Mo scouts at all? What percentage of Mo scout troops/varsity units are headed by someone in the ward that is called by the Bishop? In other words, no OUT gay man will be heading up a Mo troop anytime soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    It's an issue of association, not implementation.
    I'm with DDD. It's not like the BSA is encouraging being gay or even much approving of it. They are only considering lifting a ban of a form of participation. As the church encourages participation of its gay members, I'm not sure a minor change like the one suggested would cause the Church to sever its ties. It would be a pretty frivolous excuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I'm with DDD. It's not like the BSA is encouraging being gay or even much approving of it. They are only considering lifting a ban of a form of participation. As the church encourages participation of its gay members, I'm not sure a minor change like the one suggested would cause the Church to sever its ties. It would be a pretty frivolous excuse.
    You agree with me as well, then. I never said I had an issue with the association. But I think the church will. Selfishly, I hope they will. Scouting is a dry well.
    Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

    There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

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    Where's Wallace? Surfah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    You agree with me as well, then. I never said I had an issue with the association. But I think the church will. Selfishly, I hope they will. Scouting is a dry well.
    We share the same opinion.
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  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by BYUMizzou View Post
    I particularly like this reader comment to the article:
    There is a religion merit badge, no? That is much more of a lifestyle choice than being gay is.

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    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    We share the same opinion.
    I don't agree, but I can see why you feel that way. Done right, LDS Scouting can be wonderful. It's rarely done right, however, and I am not sure that can be changed.
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
    ― W.H. Auden


    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I don't agree, but I can see why you feel that way. Done right, LDS Scouting can be wonderful. It's rarely done right, however, and I am not sure that can be changed.
    The most important callings to the scouting program are typically the ones that are not filled with competent or willing people (other than Scoutmaster). A functioning scout committee can go a long, long way in improving each program, however the "scout committee chair" calling is typically a second or even third calling for a person and that leaves them little time to do it properly.

    LDS scouting also sucks when it comes to budget and funding but that has been rehashed thoroughly in other threads
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    I know the LDS Church does want Bishops to closer examine those individuals called to any positions dealing with youth, but I don't know if there is a specific set of guidelines.

    I do recall a few years ago that there was an emphasis on new members of a ward not being called to those positions until the Bishop got to know the individuals a little better.
    I'm fairly sure my stake has an unspoken rule that one has to hold a TR to serve in the YM organization. There is also a wait period for move ins as you describe.
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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    I wonder why it is an issue for Mo scouts at all? What percentage of Mo scout troops/varsity units are headed by someone in the ward that is called by the Bishop? In other words, no OUT gay man will be heading up a Mo troop anytime soon.
    That was what was so maddeningly absurd about the LDS opposition to gays back in 2000. It simply would not be an issue for LDS troops due to the fact that BSA leadership in LDS units is staffed by callings. And even so, why are people worried about openly gay leaders? It is the closeted pedophiles that are the problem, and the BSA already has policies in place to deal with that (two-deep leadership, etc.).

    The BSA should have the guts to right this wrong and the Church should stay out of the way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    You agree with me as well, then. I never said I had an issue with the association. But I think the church will. Selfishly, I hope they will. Scouting is a dry well as currently implemented by LDS.
    Made a minor but important clarification.

    If the church does "dump" the scouting program, I wonder if they would allow local units to sponsor troops. In other words, scouting is replaced by Duty to God or some other program but local leadership still allows a BSA troop to meet in the ward building (basically a sponsor).

    That would open up some interesting possibiliteis - like freedom of choice to join any local LDS sponsored troop. That would be awesome. The YM and parents who really want to participate in scouting would eventually migrate to a troop that has it together and could set parental expectations accordingly. No more Moms slowing down the Mo battlewagon just enough to kick their YM out before peeling back out of the church parking lot.

    Or the LDS families that want to do scouting could all join the local Methodist BSA troop.
    “Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory.”
    "All things are measured against Nebraska." falafel

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