Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Boy Scouts reviewing Ban on Gays ...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • This conversation reminded me of when SU said that he'd rather watch ballet than a Ute football game.
    "Seriously, is there a bigger high on the whole face of the earth than eating a salad?"--SeattleUte
    "The only Ute to cause even half the nationwide hysteria of Jimmermania was Ted Bundy."--TripletDaddy
    This is a tough, NYC broad, a doctor who deals with bleeding organs, dying people and testicles on a regular basis without crying."--oxcoug
    "I'm not impressed (and I'm even into choreography . . .)"--Donuthole
    "I too was fortunate to leave with my same balls."--byu71

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Lost Student View Post
      This conversation reminded me of when SU said that he'd rather watch ballet than a Ute football game.
      Honestly, can you blame him?
      PLesa excuse the tpyos.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
        Whoa! WTH? Are you referring to me with that comment? I am not bitter in the least. I was laughing at how you have suddenly become such a cheerleader of the BSA and think it is cool and hip with a bright future. Have you enrolled your son in the BSA? Are you a volunteer leader? I didn't think so.

        I have three sons and I spent 23 years of my life as a BSA leader of some sort. I enjoyed scouts because I love the outdoors and I enjoyed spending time with my boys and their friends in the mountains. I am also highly organized - in fact I wrote an Excel VBA tool (now on Google Sheets) for managing troop data that I shared with the public and it is now fairly widely used. I still maintain it. I was fortunate to be in a ward with lots of resources. I always had a big group of competent leaders, a healthy budget, and a fully-staffed scout committee. I never once had to manage a court of honor or a friends of scouting drive when I was scoutmaster. I told the bishop to just leave me there because I enjoyed it and I was good at it. He was smart enough to know when he had a good thing so he left me alone.

        That being said, I have been arguing for years that while the BSA is a great organization, the church would be better off to drop scouting for the following reasons:

        1) it is crazy to think that all wards in the church would be able to run a scouting program like we did. Very few wards have the leadership resources and activity levels we enjoyed.

        2) It is crazy to think that every boy (and family) in the church is going to be interested in scouting. Some people like it, some don't. There is no good reason to try to get everyone to do it.

        3) It is a very inefficient way to run a church youth program. Unless you have been a leader, you can't appreciate all the overhead it takes to run a successful program: uniforms, badges, camping equipment, supplies, paperwork for all badges and rank advancements, interviews for all badges and rank advancements, leadership training, etc etc etc. It is also expensive.

        4) It has always been weird to me that the church would outsource its youth program for boys.

        What is the objective of a church youth program? I would argue it should be to grow faith, provide a support/fellowshipping structure, and teach leadership skills. The church can do that much more efficiently and effectively than using BSA. Why in the hell are we spending time teaching kids how to tie a clove hitch or use a compass?

        I am thrilled with the change. Not because I hate scouting - I will always have good memories of my time in the organization. But because we can do so much better.
        It's a little bitter for me- not that I was a great scout- but I loved cub scouts when I was just a kid- used to love just poring over the handbook. And it was kind of a part of my family- I had four older brothers who were eagles and one of my way older brothers who is about to retire as a scout executive. Change is awkward, but we'll see if the new stuff is any good.
        "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post

          What is the objective of a church youth program? I would argue it should be to grow faith, provide a support/fellowshipping structure, and teach leadership skills. The church can do that much more efficiently and effectively than using BSA. Why in the hell are we spending time teaching kids how to tie a clove hitch or use a compass?
          That right there is why youth programs in the Church suck, especially once you get outside the UT-AZ-ID corridor. Youth programs should be about giving kids a place to get together to do fun stuff with people like themselves in a space where they know that they won't be tempted to go against their beliefs. Any kind of objective beyond that is corporate. Leadership training and faith growing should be natural extensions of the fun stuff that happens, and not the primary, secondary, or even tertiary purposes for them.

          Not everything is a problem that needs solving.
          "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

          Comment


          • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
            That right there is why youth programs in the Church suck, especially once you get outside the UT-AZ-ID corridor. Youth programs should be about giving kids a place to get together to do fun stuff with people like themselves in a space where they know that they won't be tempted to go against their beliefs. Any kind of objective beyond that is corporate. Leadership training and faith growing should be natural extensions of the fun stuff that happens, and not the primary, secondary, or even tertiary purposes for them.

            Not everything is a problem that needs solving.
            Having fun is against a corporate religion's credo, except when it is scheduled. "Now, for the next fifteen minutes, boys and girls, have fun. Don't touch each other, don't fight, don't fall down, and have leaders every but have fun." Time's up.
            "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

            Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

            Comment


            • Overnight at Camp Tracy tonight w my youngest.
              "You interns are like swallows. You shit all over my patients for six weeks and then fly off."

              "Don't be sorry, it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                That right there is why youth programs in the Church suck, especially once you get outside the UT-AZ-ID corridor. Youth programs should be about giving kids a place to get together to do fun stuff with people like themselves in a space where they know that they won't be tempted to go against their beliefs. Any kind of objective beyond that is corporate. Leadership training and faith growing should be natural extensions of the fun stuff that happens, and not the primary, secondary, or even tertiary purposes for them.

                Not everything is a problem that needs solving.
                I think this is why the church is making the move. I think it's also the reason for the ministering change and the EQ change. All of these changes serve the world-wide church. I think we'll continue to see changes made which will serve members around the world.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                  That right there is why youth programs in the Church suck, especially once you get outside the UT-AZ-ID corridor. Youth programs should be about giving kids a place to get together to do fun stuff with people like themselves in a space where they know that they won't be tempted to go against their beliefs. Any kind of objective beyond that is corporate. Leadership training and faith growing should be natural extensions of the fun stuff that happens, and not the primary, secondary, or even tertiary purposes for them.

                  Not everything is a problem that needs solving.
                  Disagree. Teenagers don't need to be treated like children and entertained 24/7. Leadership training is super easy. You get the kids to plan the activities (focus on what they are interested in) and to follow through with assignments, etc. Blending some faith promoting experiences and service projects in the mix is also easy. None of that requires a corporate approach or a rigid structure and it is easily adapted to local circumstances.
                  "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                  "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                  "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                    Disagree. Teenagers don't need to be treated like children and entertained 24/7. Leadership training is super easy. You get the kids to plan the activities (focus on what they are interested in) and to follow through with assignments, etc. Blending some faith promoting experiences and service projects in the mix is also easy. None of that requires a corporate approach or a rigid structure and it is easily adapted to local circumstances.
                    Awesome... My son will be playing Fortnite with the rest of the YM every Wednesday night!
                    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by hostile View Post
                      Overnight at Camp Tracy tonight w my youngest.
                      I'll be up there tomorrow with my 11yo. My 14yo is up there tonight though.
                      “Every player dreams of being a Yankee, and if they don’t it’s because they never got the chance.” Aroldis Chapman

                      Comment


                      • Father and son's campout last night at the local scout camp park...

                        Green Monstah, were you there?

                        Comment


                        • I remember being selected to order of the arrow and told go in fall there will be people you know there. Can,t talk anyway. I have football in fall. There are more important things than football. Appendectomy kept me from making either desciscion. I donlt think anyone in our troop went. Cheesy I think anyway. Didn,t they know I had football then.

                          For,er temple President could of done both but chose 4h and spent time in it over scouts so can,t sit in Eagles nest at Grandkids court of honors. He joined the church at U of I and got married instead of going on mission, served as Bishop, Stake President, Regional Representative, Area Seventy, and Mission President as well as Temple President and could of been better prepared for those callings if he went on mission.

                          We had me couple whose son was called butt wipe in cub scouts so went to temple and prayed about to and took son out of cub scouts. Bishop said it is the church's program Lord donlt tell yu to do that. Padre was in Stake Young Men's Presidency at time. They got tangled up with self appointed leader too. Divorced he realized he wasn,t do right things, she thinks her old so called branch president is devil now. Very controlling, interesting scout stories from people. I,m glad I am an Eagle but I guess there are other programs,

                          Church dean,t prohibit 4h, girls and boys clubs, Girl Scouts school activities it just doesn't, provide them. I don't know if you can use church buildings for non profit activities like 4h or demos.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by grapevine View Post
                            I remember being selected to order of the arrow and told go in fall there will be people you know there. Can,t talk anyway. I have football in fall. There are more important things than football. Appendectomy kept me from making either desciscion. I donlt think anyone in our troop went. Cheesy I think anyway. Didn,t they know I had football then.

                            For,er temple President could of done both but chose 4h and spent time in it over scouts so can,t sit in Eagles nest at Grandkids court of honors. He joined the church at U of I and got married instead of going on mission, served as Bishop, Stake President, Regional Representative, Area Seventy, and Mission President as well as Temple President and could of been better prepared for those callings if he went on mission.

                            We had me couple whose son was called butt wipe in cub scouts so went to temple and prayed about to and took son out of cub scouts. Bishop said it is the church's program Lord donlt tell yu to do that. Padre was in Stake Young Men's Presidency at time. They got tangled up with self appointed leader too. Divorced he realized he wasn,t do right things, she thinks her old so called branch president is devil now. Very controlling, interesting scout stories from people. I,m glad I am an Eagle but I guess there are other programs,

                            Church dean,t prohibit 4h, girls and boys clubs, Girl Scouts school activities it just doesn't, provide them. I don't know if you can use church buildings for non profit activities like 4h or demos.
                            I don't blame them. I'd do it too it wasn't for basketball season coming after football season. Not so much baseball... baseball is for eating peanuts, but I can do that in the car. Bigger picture though I think Nelson is hitting it on the persimmon screws (I'm pretty sure that he has an old set of Haig Ultra's in his garage) even though JL is giving DHO the credit telling me that I don't have to feel guilty anymore for not doing what I should have been doing better. Eyring's OK - the jury is still out on him. I'm excited about the world tour though, seems alot of good people are experiencing minor miracles. Kind of reminds me when the Young Pope went to Africa and took out the evil lesbian nun who was running a fiefdom and the YP prayed in the parking lot and a destroying angel took revenge on the old nun. Personally, I thought Diane Keaton was miscast. I would have gone with Sally Fields with her previous flying nun experience. Why don't we have nuns in our church... I kind of guess we do... there's a group of 5-6 ladies in each ward that sit together on the back left, and then they pretend to out do each other with the walkers. Why so many - can't they share? If they were Eagle Scouts they could help themselves across the street. We don't need less nests - we need more nests.
                            Last edited by clackamascoug; 05-13-2018, 11:14 AM.

                            When poet puts pen to paper imagination breathes life, finding hearth and home.
                            -Mid Summer's Night Dream

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                              Disagree. Teenagers don't need to be treated like children and entertained 24/7. Leadership training is super easy. You get the kids to plan the activities (focus on what they are interested in) and to follow through with assignments, etc. Blending some faith promoting experiences and service projects in the mix is also easy. None of that requires a corporate approach or a rigid structure and it is easily adapted to local circumstances.
                              How much experience do you have with youth programs from Protestant churches? There are some youth programs that have kids showing up more than their parents because they are so engaging.

                              Contrast that with our jobsworth leaders. I joined the Church when I was 17. About 6 months after my baptism, I had an interview with the bishop on a Wednesday night for something or other. I was playing basketball, and he came into the room, pulled me out, into his office, and proceeded to piously scold me about how it was disrespectful to not wear a shirt and tie to an interview with a priesthood leader.

                              Another time, the Relief Society decided to hold a meeting during youth activity night. We had something outside. When we were done, we came in and started playing basketball, and you would've thought that we had interrupted a Queen recording session for "Bohemian Rhapsody." The RS Presidency (Plural) came in screaming, "NO NO NO NO NO" at us. The bouncing balls were annoying them. There was no, "Hey guys, we're having a meeting."

                              I could go on and on. As a kid and as a leader. But, I'm not going to.
                              "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                                How much experience do you have with youth programs from Protestant churches? There are some youth programs that have kids showing up more than their parents because they are so engaging.

                                Contrast that with our jobsworth leaders. I joined the Church when I was 17. About 6 months after my baptism, I had an interview with the bishop on a Wednesday night for something or other. I was playing basketball, and he came into the room, pulled me out, into his office, and proceeded to piously scold me about how it was disrespectful to not wear a shirt and tie to an interview with a priesthood leader.

                                Another time, the Relief Society decided to hold a meeting during youth activity night. We had something outside. When we were done, we came in and started playing basketball, and you would've thought that we had interrupted a Queen recording session for "Bohemian Rhapsody." The RS Presidency (Plural) came in screaming, "NO NO NO NO NO" at us. The bouncing balls were annoying them. There was no, "Hey guys, we're having a meeting."

                                I could go on and on. As a kid and as a leader. But, I'm not going to.
                                Not sure what those two anecdotes have to do with the discussion. You seem to have an endless reservoir of cases where people have done dumb things to piss you off. That's a shame.

                                I had a few nutty leaders as a kid, but most were great people just trying to do their best.
                                "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                                "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                                "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X