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Thread: The Supreme Court, bastion of conservatism

  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    That graphic is a middle finger to color-blind people everywhere.

    I am not color blind and I still can't read it.
    Preach it! Hash tag me too.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    That graphic is a middle finger to color-blind people everywhere.

    I am not color blind and I still can't read it.
    Well, if you go to the wikipedia link I included above you can click on each of the states... I think some of them even include the braille translation for you older folks. You could even have Siri read it for you.
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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Well, if you go to the wikipedia link I included above you can click on each of the states... I think some of them even include the braille translation for you older folks. You could even have Siri read it for you.
    Haha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    OMG! It's the end of the world as we know it:



    and I feel fine.
    So...when did Chris Matthews start worrying about looking stupid?!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    OMG. How on earth does this mean that "the constitution is at stake"? Aren't we simply following a constitutional process?
    Exactly.

    Furthermore, the conservative judges are the ones that try to adhere to the constitution. It's the liberal judges that try to bend it to a pretzel to get the social outcome they want. This is just more of the almost two year childish fit on the left from not getting their way that is still going on.

  6. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    Exactly.

    Furthermore, the conservative judges are the ones that try to adhere to the constitution. It's the liberal judges that try to bend it to a pretzel to get the social outcome they want. This is just more of the almost two year childish fit on the left from not getting their way that is still going on.
    damn you are dumb
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    damn you are dumb

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    OMG. How on earth does this mean that "the constitution is at stake"? Aren't we simply following a constitutional process?
    Because those darn conservative justices are bending the constitution to serve their own ends. Like upholding the first amendment, for one.

    Incidentally, I've read a couple of pieces saying that the holdings of Justice Kennedy's liberal colleagues on First Amendment issues are a major contributor to his decision to leave. He looks at his colleagues on the left, and his colleagues on the right, and has decided he would rather have the fifth seat go to someone that looks like the ones on the right. Like Gorsuch, his former clerk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    Because those darn conservative justices are bending the constitution to serve their own ends. Like upholding the first amendment, for one.

    Incidentally, I've read a couple of pieces saying that the holdings of Justice Kennedy's liberal colleagues on First Amendment issues are a major contributor to his decision to leave. He looks at his colleagues on the left, and his colleagues on the right, and has decided he would rather have the fifth seat go to someone that looks like the ones on the right. Like Gorsuch, his former clerk.
    Interesting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    Because those darn conservative justices are bending the constitution to serve their own ends. Like upholding the first amendment, for one.

    Incidentally, I've read a couple of pieces saying that the holdings of Justice Kennedy's liberal colleagues on First Amendment issues are a major contributor to his decision to leave. He looks at his colleagues on the left, and his colleagues on the right, and has decided he would rather have the fifth seat go to someone that looks like the ones on the right. Like Gorsuch, his former clerk.
    An interesting take. He certainly isn't forced to leave, but at 80, he should be allowed to enjoy some years with family. He is a voice of moderation and I'm glad he voted with the liberals to strike down the Texas abortion clinic laws.
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  12. #102

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    kavanaugh is an excellent pick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    I've seen multiple FB posts where people actually believed that article and the quotes within it. Depressing, really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    I've seen multiple FB posts where people actually believed that article and the quotes within it. Depressing, really.
    Are you stating we can't believe what's on the internet?
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

  15. #105
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    Until I read FB last night and this morning. I had no idea so many of my friends were so well versed in not only constitutional law, but were able to so quickly digest Kavanaugh's decades of legal writings into a couple sentence summary of what they like/hate about the man. From now on I'm avoiding asking my looser lawyer friends legal questions, and relying upon the my more informed HS friends and ward members. #themoreyouknow

  16. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
    Until I read FB last night and this morning. I had no idea so many of my friends were so well versed in not only constitutional law, but were able to so quickly digest Kavanaugh's decades of legal writings into a couple sentence summary of what they like/hate about the man. From now on I'm avoiding asking my looser lawyer friends legal questions, and relying upon the my more informed HS friends and ward members. #themoreyouknow
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    Looser than whom? That is the question.
    Hopefully not SU.

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/09/o...urt-trump.html

    I can see Kavanaugh becoming a sort of counter to Justice Kagan: a reliable vote on their side, but someone the other side respects (grudgingly and otherwise), and possibly even someone who peels off toward the center on a few occasions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/09/o...urt-trump.html

    I can see Kavanaugh becoming a sort of counter to Justice Kagan: a reliable vote on their side, but someone the other side respects (grudgingly and otherwise), and possibly even someone who peels off toward the center on a few occasions.
    The Morning Joe (I’m traveling and this catch up on cable news shows) was discussing this article this morning and all the libs in that show had almost effusive praise for the pick. I think they were mostly just happy Trump didn’t go Uber-conservative but they didn’t have anything too bad to say about Kavanaugh.

    Maddow on the their hand seemed about ready to call on the apocalypse with her scaremongering.
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  20. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post

    Incidentally, I've read a couple of pieces saying that the holdings of Justice Kennedy's liberal colleagues on First Amendment issues are a major contributor to his decision to leave. He looks at his colleagues on the left, and his colleagues on the right, and has decided he would rather have the fifth seat go to someone that looks like the ones on the right. Like Gorsuch, his former clerk.
    This is not interesting, as far as it goes. Of course he’s resigning so that Trump and not a Democratic President can appoint his successor. Ginsburg should have resigned during Obama for a similar reason.

    What’s interesting is to read the subtext of his resignation at this time—what it tells you about how he reads the direction of a future Supreme Court with a Trump apointee replacing him. Here is what almost everyone is missing. The great issues of the day are business related issues, not social issues.

    Justice Kennedy is as radical as any judge gets about social issues. He wrote the same sex marriages opinions. But he’s very libertarian as to the business related issues. He’s not worried that Trump appointees will overturn Roe or undoe same sex marriage as a Constitutional right. Yes, they will restrict abortion at the margins, and balance same sex liberty against religious liberty and property rights as they recently did. But the landmark civil rights opinions will stand.

    Undoing these, whether Brown v. Board, Roe, or same sex, is a pipe dream. There are two reasons for this. First, these conservative justices are bred in the bone members of the federal judiciary priesthood. They care more about that than their Catholic faith. They understand stare deciis and they aren’gt going go make case law that upends established case law and around which societal expections and norms have been developed. Stare decisis is important to blue bloods like these guys.

    Second, the Court is super sensitive to the political will. I regard this restraint its saving grace more than any strict construction of the Constitution. The fact is that an overwhelming majority of Americans don’t watn the iconic civil rights cases overturned, including Roe. That’s why that case law exists.

    Now, to me its a supreme irony that the business related issues are almost ignored. The biggest threat to our liberty right now is the radical left’s overt hostility to our business communities. Every country that cares about civil rights became that way after economic prosperity. Economic prosperity is a precondition to a decent, free society. Just look at Europe and more recently China. We hear all the time the original, unamended Constitution disparaged for its preoccupation with property rights. This was a part of its genius. America is great because of capitalism, the most successful ideology in the history of the world.

    This musn’t be taken for granted. At a more concrete level, see how the radical left cares nothing about the working class and poor, who are most directly hurt by their extreme opposition to fossils fuels and growth. They care more about a theoretical risk to trees than the current suffering of humans. But guess what, if we’re gong to be saved from climate change, that marriage of business and science we call technology, not sustainability, is going to do it. Who gets hurt most if a pipeline terminal in Bellingham Washington doesn’t get built? Not liberal Seattle elites. It’s people who spend a greater share of their income on consumer goods including gasoline, and laborers who would build such things.

    Here in Seattle we received an object lesson. The City Council, which includes a couple of avowed socialists (clueless to the 100 million people murdered in the 20th century in the name of National SOCIALISM (NAZI) and USSOCIALISTR), last month passed a “head tax”, a tax on jobs ostensibly to fund “affordable housing”. Seattle essentially has no unemployment, but Amazon is being blamed for the homeless crisis (homelessness is caused by drug additional and mental illness, not rising rents that are occurring apace wiht rising wages and job creation, but that’s a topic for another thread). The City Council heald a rally in support of the head tax at Amazon’s glass orbs. THE IRONWORKERS’ UNION members showed up and drowned out the rally with shouts, “NO Head tax!” They passed the ordinance anyway, then repealed it after 45,000 signatures were collected in a week to put it on the ballot.

    Now, back to Kennedy. He realizes that the boring business related issues are the issue fo the day. The crazy attacks on tech, that has done nothing but made our lives better, the scapegoating of facebook for Trump’s victory etc. Tax and environmental issue. He feels that the social issues he cares deeply about are safe; he’ll let the conservative court nibble away at the edges of those. Gay couples have plenty of options for wedding cake bakers. Clearly he feels that as to the social issues, the key civil rights issues have been won and settled for good. But in the interest of America and liberty, he wants to insure that the a conserviate court continues to decide the issues of the day that truly matter to ordinary Americans’ health and and prosperity and even liberty.
    Last edited by SeattleUte; 07-10-2018 at 03:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    This is not interesting, as far as it goes. Of course he’s resigning so that Trump and not a Democratic President can appoint his successor. Ginsburg should have resigned during Obama for a similar reason.

    What’s interesting is to read the subtext of his resignation at this time—what it tells you about how he reads the direction of a future Supreme Court with a Trump apointee replacing him. Here is what almost everyone is missing. The great issues of the day are business related issues, not social issues.

    Justice Kennedy is as radical as any judge gets about social issues. He wrote the same sex marriages opinions. But he’s very libertarian as to the business related issues. He’s not worried that Trump appointees will overturn Roe or undoe same sex marriage as a Constitutional right. Yes, they will restrict abortion at the margins, and balance same sex liberty against religious liberty and property rights as they recently did. But the landmark civil rights opinions will stand.

    Undoing these, whether Brown v. Board, Roe, or same sex, is a pipe dream. There are two reasons for this. First, these conservative justices are bred in the bone members of the federal judiciary priesthood. They care more about that than their Catholic faith. They understand stare deciis and they aren’gt going go make case law that upends established case law and around which societal expections and norms have been developed. Stare decisis is important to blue bloods like these guys.

    Second, the Court is super sensitive to the political will. I regard this restraint its saving grace more than any strict construction of the Constitution. The fact is that an overwhelming majority of Americans don’t watn the iconic civil rights cases overturned, including Roe. That’s why that case law exists.

    Now, to me its a supreme irony that the business related issues are almost ignored. The biggest threat to our liberty right now is the radical left’s overt hostility to our business communities. Every country that cares about civil rights became that way after economic prosperity. Economic prosperity is a precondition to a decent, free society. Just look at Europe and more recently China. We hear all the time the original, unamended Constitution’s disparaged for its preoccupation with property rights. This was a part of its genius. America is great because of capitalism, the most successful ideology in the history of the world.

    This musn’t be taken for granted. At a more concrete level, see how the radical left cares nothing about the working class and poor, who are most directly hurt by their extreme opposition to fossils fuels and growth. They care more about a theoretical risk to trees than the current suffering of humans. But guess what, if we’re gong to be saved from climate change, that marriage of business and science we call technology, not sustainability, is going to do it. Who gets hurt most if a pipeline terminal in Bellingham Washington doesn’t get built? Not liberal Seattle elites. It’s people who spend a greater share of their income on consumer goods including gasoline, and laborers who would build such things.

    Here in Seattle we received an object lesson. The City coun is, which includes a couple of avowed socialists (clueless to the 100 million people murdered in the 20th century in the name of National SOCIALISM (NAZI) and USSOCIALISTR), last month passed a “head tax”, a tax on jobs ostensibly to fund “affordable housing”. Seattle essentially has no unemployment, but Amazon is being blamed for the homeless crisis (homelessness is caused by drug additional and mental illness, not rising rents that at occurring apace wiht rising wages and job creation, but that’s a topic for another thread). The City Council heald a rally in support of the head tax at Amazon’s glass orbs. THE IRONWORKERS’ UNION members showed up and drowned out the rally with shouted, “NO Head tax!” They passed the ordinance anyway, then repealed it after 45,000 were collected in a week to put it on the ballot.

    Now, back to Kennedy. He realizes that the boring business related issues are the issue fo the day. The crazy attacks on tech, that has done nothing but made our lives better, the scapegoating of facebook for Trump’s victory et. Tax and environmental issue. He feels that the social issues he cares deeply about are safe; he’ll let the conservative court nibble away at the edges of those. Gay couples have plenty of options for wedding cake bakers. Clearly he feels that as to the social issues, the key civil rights issues have been won and settled for good. But in the interest of America and liberty, he wants to insure that the a conserviate court continues to decide the issues of the day that truly matter to ordinary Americans’ health and and prosperity and even liberty.
    I think this is pretty much spot on.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  22. #112
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    nice post - suprisingly I agree with most of this.

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  23. #113

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    Very interesting thoughts SU.
    One of the grandest benefits of the enlightenment was the realization that our moral sense must be based on the welfare of living individuals, not on their immortal souls. Honest and passionate folks can strongly disagree regarding spiritual matters, so it's imperative that we not allow such considerations to infringe on the real happiness of real people.

    Woot

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I think this is pretty much spot on.
    An excellent take and I agree.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

  25. #115
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    Having recently read Jonah Goldberg's Suicide of the West (about the disturbing shift away from free market capitalism), I want to believe SU is correct and that Kennedy's objective in resigning is realized.

  26. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    This is not interesting, as far as it goes. Of course he’s resigning so that Trump and not a Democratic President can appoint his successor. Ginsburg should have resigned during Obama for a similar reason.

    What’s interesting is to read the subtext of his resignation at this time—what it tells you about how he reads the direction of a future Supreme Court with a Trump apointee replacing him. Here is what almost everyone is missing. The great issues of the day are business related issues, not social issues.

    Justice Kennedy is as radical as any judge gets about social issues. He wrote the same sex marriages opinions. But he’s very libertarian as to the business related issues. He’s not worried that Trump appointees will overturn Roe or undoe same sex marriage as a Constitutional right. Yes, they will restrict abortion at the margins, and balance same sex liberty against religious liberty and property rights as they recently did. But the landmark civil rights opinions will stand.

    Undoing these, whether Brown v. Board, Roe, or same sex, is a pipe dream. There are two reasons for this. First, these conservative justices are bred in the bone members of the federal judiciary priesthood. They care more about that than their Catholic faith. They understand stare deciis and they aren’gt going go make case law that upends established case law and around which societal expections and norms have been developed. Stare decisis is important to blue bloods like these guys.

    Second, the Court is super sensitive to the political will. I regard this restraint its saving grace more than any strict construction of the Constitution. The fact is that an overwhelming majority of Americans don’t watn the iconic civil rights cases overturned, including Roe. That’s why that case law exists.

    Now, to me its a supreme irony that the business related issues are almost ignored. The biggest threat to our liberty right now is the radical left’s overt hostility to our business communities. Every country that cares about civil rights became that way after economic prosperity. Economic prosperity is a precondition to a decent, free society. Just look at Europe and more recently China. We hear all the time the original, unamended Constitution disparaged for its preoccupation with property rights. This was a part of its genius. America is great because of capitalism, the most successful ideology in the history of the world.

    This musn’t be taken for granted. At a more concrete level, see how the radical left cares nothing about the working class and poor, who are most directly hurt by their extreme opposition to fossils fuels and growth. They care more about a theoretical risk to trees than the current suffering of humans. But guess what, if we’re gong to be saved from climate change, that marriage of business and science we call technology, not sustainability, is going to do it. Who gets hurt most if a pipeline terminal in Bellingham Washington doesn’t get built? Not liberal Seattle elites. It’s people who spend a greater share of their income on consumer goods including gasoline, and laborers who would build such things.

    Here in Seattle we received an object lesson. The City Council, which includes a couple of avowed socialists (clueless to the 100 million people murdered in the 20th century in the name of National SOCIALISM (NAZI) and USSOCIALISTR), last month passed a “head tax”, a tax on jobs ostensibly to fund “affordable housing”. Seattle essentially has no unemployment, but Amazon is being blamed for the homeless crisis (homelessness is caused by drug additional and mental illness, not rising rents that are occurring apace wiht rising wages and job creation, but that’s a topic for another thread). The City Council heald a rally in support of the head tax at Amazon’s glass orbs. THE IRONWORKERS’ UNION members showed up and drowned out the rally with shouts, “NO Head tax!” They passed the ordinance anyway, then repealed it after 45,000 signatures were collected in a week to put it on the ballot.

    Now, back to Kennedy. He realizes that the boring business related issues are the issue fo the day. The crazy attacks on tech, that has done nothing but made our lives better, the scapegoating of facebook for Trump’s victory etc. Tax and environmental issue. He feels that the social issues he cares deeply about are safe; he’ll let the conservative court nibble away at the edges of those. Gay couples have plenty of options for wedding cake bakers. Clearly he feels that as to the social issues, the key civil rights issues have been won and settled for good. But in the interest of America and liberty, he wants to insure that the a conserviate court continues to decide the issues of the day that truly matter to ordinary Americans’ health and and prosperity and even liberty.
    Thanks for typing this out. Really good read. Some of your best work. Appreciate you educating me.

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    shocking conclusion from a bunch of upper middle class white males that the issue is a lack of market predominance.
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  28. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    shocking conclusion from a bunch of upper middle class white males that the issue is a lack of market predominance.
    I think SU’s main point is that Seattle is full of nutjobs. Spot on.
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  29. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I think SU’s main point is that Seattle is full of nutjobs. Spot on.
    Bunch of Portland rejects. Portland is where the sane people live

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  30. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    Having recently read Jonah Goldberg's Suicide of the West (about the disturbing shift away from free market capitalism), I want to believe SU is correct and that Kennedy's objective in resigning is realized.
    We used to distinguish ourselves from dictatorships on economic grounds as often as we did on personal freedom grounds. An increasing number of the political screeds I come across now make me wonder if we lost the cold war.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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