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Thread: The Supreme Court, bastion of conservatism

  1. #931

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Democrats controlled everything when FDR attempted it. And he was arguably one of the most popular presidents in history. Yet he still failed miserably.

    This is crazy talk. They won't attempt that.
    I hope you're right.

    How did we get here?

  2. #932

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    Interesting article. Yes, the author leans against, but makes valid non-partisan-based points. I could see many of these type of arguments being what will make Flake, Collins and Murkowski vote against.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...anaugh/571936/
    Last edited by BlueK; 10-03-2018 at 05:36 PM.

  3. #933

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    Is there any possible way the GOP can still come out ahead with a confirmation of BK? Is there any way the GOP comes out ahead otherwise? If Republicans force the vote to confirm now, the smurfs will show up by the thousands at the polls in November. If they postpone the vote, they risk losing the majority. And withdrawal of the nomination is an implicit concession of defeat that will piss off the loyalists. The party is really backed into a corner on this one.

  4. #934
    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    Interesting article. Yes, the author leans against, but makes valid non-partisan-based points. I could see many of these type of arguments being what will make Flake, Collins and Murkowski vote against.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...anaugh/571936/
    Thanks. Interesting read.
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  5. #935
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babs View Post
    Is there any possible way the GOP can still come out ahead with a confirmation of BK? Is there any way the GOP comes out ahead otherwise? If Republicans force the vote to confirm now, the smurfs will show up by the thousands at the polls in November. If they postpone the vote, they risk losing the majority. And withdrawal of the nomination is an implicit concession of defeat that will piss off the loyalists. The party is really backed into a corner on this one.
    generic congressional polls are trending in the GOP’s favor over the past week or two, which many are crediting to the insane handling of the situation by the dems. I don’t think confirming Kav will have as big of an impact as delaying the vote.
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  6. #936

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    Welp, sounds thorough:

    FBI Says It Lacks White House Approval to Talk to Kavanaugh and Ford


    The FBI hasn’t interviewed Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh or Christine Blasey Ford because it doesn’t have clear authority from the White House to do so, according to two people with knowledge of the matter.

    Instead, the White House has indicated to the FBI that testimony from Kavanaugh and Ford, who has accused him of attempting to rape her when they were in high school, before the Senate Judiciary Committee last week is sufficient, said the people, who asked to not be identified discussing the sensitive matter.

    The new evidence of constraints on the FBI probe came as Republican Senator Bob Corker told reporters the FBI is likely to give senators a stack of interview reports, probably later on Wednesday. He said senators were told in a GOP meeting that a vote on cutting off debate is likely on Friday to move toward a confirmation vote on Kavanaugh.

    A tentative plan for viewing the report is that a single copy will be available in a secure room for senators to view starting Thursday morning, at one-hour intervals alternating between Republicans and Democrats, according to a person briefed on the matter.

    It wasn’t immediately clear whether the Federal Bureau of Investigation was trying to force the issue and seek explicit approval from the White House to interview Ford and Kavanaugh. And it wasn’t clear why the FBI hasn’t yet talked to other people who have been recommended by lawyers or who have voluntarily come forward — or if the bureau would need explicit approval to talk with them as well.

    Confusion beset the investigation, fed by conflicting signals over what constraints have been placed on the bureau despite President Donald Trump’s comment Monday that “the FBI should interview anybody that they want, within reason.”

    Senator Dianne Feinstein, the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, said in a statement Wednesday that the lack of interviews with Ford, Kavanaugh and others “raises serious concerns that this is not a credible investigation and begs the question: What other restrictions has the White House placed on the FBI?”

    The FBI declined to comment on the investigation or its timing.

    http://time.com/5414812/fbi-white-ho...rce=reddit.com
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  7. #937
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Welp, sounds thorough:

    FBI Says It Lacks White House Approval to Talk to Kavanaugh and Ford


    http://time.com/5414812/fbi-white-ho...rce=reddit.com
    Meh. Who cares? The intent of this brief investigation was to chase down information on the alleged witnesses.

    Flake and Coons were on the Today show this morning and Samantha Guthrie was trying to get them worked up about this. Both of them shrugged their shoulders and it wasn't that big of a deal and wasn't the main objective of the investigation since there is already plenty of testimony from them.

    You can see the interview here:

    https://www.today.com/video/jeff-fla...31626?v=raila&
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  8. #938
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    White House Finds No Corroboration of Sexual Misconduct Allegations Against Kavanaugh in FBI Report

    The White House has found no corroboration of the allegations of sexual misconduct against Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh after examining interview reports from the FBI’s latest probe into the judge’s background, according to people familiar with the matter.

    It was unclear whether the White House, which for weeks has raised doubts about the allegations, had finalized its review of the FBI interview reports. Officials were expected to be sending the FBI report to the Senate Judiciary Committee later Wednesday.

    Still, the White House’s conclusions from the report means little at this point in the confirmation process. Senators who will decide Mr. Kavanaugh’s fate are set to review the findings on Thursday, and some of them may draw different conclusions.

    The result could leave senators in much the same position as last week—faced with two witnesses providing mutually exclusive accounts and forced to decide between them.
    A White House spokesman declined to comment.
    [...]
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-h...ort-1538625927

    Edit: A copy of the report that was leaked... I am guessing from a Dem.

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  9. #939

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    Kavanaugh and I have something in common. My HS years were pretty much only about family, school, church and basketball also.

  10. #940

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    generic congressional polls are trending in the GOP’s favor over the past week or two, which many are crediting to the insane handling of the situation by the dems.
    Yes, but those polls also predicted Hillary to win by 5+ points. It will come down to voter turnout. The reds annoyed by this circus are less likely to show up than the blues offended by everything else.

  11. #941

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    White House confirms FBI’s Kavanaugh investigation only looked at what Republican senators wanted

    The White House announced early Thursday morning that the FBI has completed its “supplemental background investigation” into Brett Kavanaugh, Donald Trump’s pick for a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court. And later that morning, Principal Deputy Press Secretary Raj Shah told CNN that the investigation included just nine comprehensive interviews and no examination into whether the nominee may have lied to the Senate Judiciary Committee when he denied ever getting so drunk that he blacked out and had memory lapses.

    Shah claimed that the White House had simply had the FBI investigate what the Senate was “interested in,” but then clarified that by that he only meant Senate Republicans.

    Asked why the FBI was not permitted to investigate whether Kavanaugh had memory lapses — as his former Yale roommate and other former classmates have alleged — Shah argued that no Senator who matters wanted to know.

    “All the folks that are demanding this type of investigation in the Senate are Democrats who have already pledged to vote no. They don’t want additional information to make a decision. They want to delay this process.”
    https://thinkprogress.org/raj-shah-k...-fb5231fb1649/
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  12. #942

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    Quote Originally Posted by Babs View Post
    Yes, but those polls also predicted Hillary to win by 5+ points. It will come down to voter turnout. The reds annoyed by this circus are less likely to show up than the blues offended by everything else.
    According to this it doesn't appear to have changed all that much.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...vote-6185.html

  13. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babs View Post
    Yes, but those polls also predicted Hillary to win by 5+ points. It will come down to voter turnout. The reds annoyed by this circus are less likely to show up than the blues offended by everything else.
    That’s funny. That is not what we learned from the last election.
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  14. #944

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    Kavanaugh and I have something in common. My HS years were pretty much only about family, school, church and basketball also.
    same here!
    I'm like LeBron James.
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  15. #945

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    same here!

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/03/polit...ntv/index.html

  16. #946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babs View Post
    Yes, but those polls also predicted Hillary to win by 5+ points. It will come down to voter turnout. The reds annoyed by this circus are less likely to show up than the blues offended by everything else.
    Which is currently the greater number in your opinion: left leaning voters who are disturbed enough by the dem tactics in this nomination fight that they will consider voting the other way this time, or Trump supporters who are troubled by sexual assault allegations enough to abandon the Republican party this time around? The lefties who are outraged by the kavenaugh proceedings have been outraged for the past two years and were going to show up regardless. But this circus plays right into how Trump interacts with his base and some of his supporters who may not have been jazzed about the mid terms have now been galvanized.

    If the Republicans hold the house they can thank Diane Feinstein.

  17. #947

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    Which is currently the greater number in your opinion: left leaning voters who are disturbed enough by the dem tactics in this nomination fight that they will consider voting the other way this time, or Trump supporters who are troubled by sexual assault allegations enough to abandon the Republican party this time around? The lefties who are outraged by the kavenaugh proceedings have been outraged for the past two years and were going to show up regardless. But this circus plays right into how Trump interacts with his base and some of his supporters who may not have been jazzed about the mid terms have now been galvanized.

    If the Republicans hold the house they can thank Diane Feinstein.
    This might be a factor to wake up some Republican voters to show up, but I doubt it will be enough to hold onto the House. Where it may matter is that I think until a couple of weeks ago that the GOP was probably also going to lose the Senate, as most of the half dozen or so key races there were trending in favor of the democrat. That seems less likely today. Then again, it can still change.
    Last edited by BlueK; 10-04-2018 at 07:35 AM.

  18. #948
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    Which is currently the greater number in your opinion: left leaning voters who are disturbed enough by the dem tactics in this nomination fight that they will consider voting the other way this time, or Trump supporters who are troubled by sexual assault allegations enough to abandon the Republican party this time around? The lefties who are outraged by the kavenaugh proceedings have been outraged for the past two years and were going to show up regardless. But this circus plays right into how Trump interacts with his base and some of his supporters who may not have been jazzed about the mid terms have now been galvanized.

    If the Republicans hold the house they can thank Diane Feinstein.
    And what about "normal" repubs who can't stand Trump but are disgusted with how the dems handled this last minute character assassination of Judge Brett? They may have been inclined to vote dem this time around to send a message to Trump, but the game has changed. At best for the dems, they'll just stay home. At worst they come out and vote repub.
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  19. #949

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    My concern with him remains the same. I think his record shows he's weak on separation of powers issues as well as probably on 1st, 4th and 5th amendment issues. But those are too boring for the tabloids and popular media to spend any time talking about.

  20. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    And what about "normal" repubs who can't stand Trump but are disgusted with how the dems handled this last minute character assassination of Judge Brett? They may have been inclined to vote dem this time around to send a message to Trump, but the game has changed. At best for the dems, they'll just stay home. At worst they come out and vote repub.
    Yeah I was thinking about that group as well and I think it may be significant (I am in it!). I think the dems still take the house but it the Republicans hold it will not be a shock to anyone but traditional media and the committed "resistance".

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  21. #951

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    That’s funny. That is not what we learned from the last election.
    It's exactly what we learned from the last election. The voters opposed to the existing executive regime are a lot more likely to show up and vote.

  22. #952
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babs View Post
    It's exactly what we learned from the last election. The voters opposed to the existing executive regime are a lot more likely to show up and vote.
    Hillary Clinton was the existing executive regime? OK.
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  23. #953
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    Interesting article. Yes, the author leans against, but makes valid non-partisan-based points. I could see many of these type of arguments being what will make Flake, Collins and Murkowski vote against.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...anaugh/571936/
    Totally unpersuasive.

    If he is telling the truth, he has every right to be indignant. Heck, we should all be indignant-- over the harm to Kavanaugh and his family, to the Senate and Court, and most of all to Ford, who never wanted these allegations leaked in the first place. Even the author of this article ultimately agrees with this: if he is telling the truth, his anger is understandable, or even "forgivable."

    And if he is lying, does it mollify his perjury if he lies with a smile on his face and a song in his heart?

    This all comes down to whether or not you think he is telling the truth. His temperament in doing so is pretty much inconsequential. This is small ball stuff.
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  24. #954
    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    Kavanaugh and I have something in common. My HS years were pretty much only about family, school, church and basketball also.
    No football?
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  25. #955
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babs View Post
    It's exactly what we learned from the last election. The voters opposed to the existing executive regime are a lot more likely to show up and vote.
    Here is why Dems will have a wave:

    1.) More excitement. Losing creates excitement for change, winning never does that. Check your BOM pride cycle chart from Targeteer B class. Dems are repenting and about to get blessed. Republicans are enjoying the riches of success and are just a month or two from burning babies to some false God. Alma and Amulek are going to endure for a bit more before all hell breaks loose on election day.

    2.) Trump's base is about Trump. Just like Obama's coalition was about Obama. Coalition's based on cult of personality (Thank you Living Color) don't vote in midterms.

    I don't think Kavanugh's situation is going to impact this much at all. I think the tightening of polls is because Republicans, who tend to vote more in midterms, are getting engaged more which happens every election come October. But I am skeptical they will be engaged enough to stop the Tulane Blue Wave!

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  26. #956

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    No football?
    sure, I watched it on TV and went to the games at LES, called Cougar Stadium at the time. Basketball has always been my favorite sport though and I played it as much as I could. Unfortunately for me personally, my HS team was too good to need my talents.
    Last edited by BlueK; 10-04-2018 at 09:17 AM.

  27. #957

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Hillary Clinton was the existing executive regime? OK.
    I'm confused.

  28. #958

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    The responses from Flake/Collins/Murkowski sound like Kavanaugh is on his way to the supreme court.

    I believe Ford, I believe the dems did her wrong the way they rolled it out, and believe Avenetti damaged her credibility with the way he represented his client. And that Kavanaugh really doesn't seem like that great of a SC candidate, based on his embarrassing second round of testimony.

    Whatever. I just want the circus to end.

  29. #959

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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    Totally unpersuasive.

    If he is telling the truth, he has every right to be indignant. Heck, we should all be indignant-- over the harm to Kavanaugh and his family, to the Senate and Court, and most of all to Ford, who never wanted these allegations leaked in the first place. Even the author of this article ultimately agrees with this: if he is telling the truth, his anger is understandable, or even "forgivable."

    And if he is lying, does it mollify his perjury if he lies with a smile on his face and a song in his heart?

    This all comes down to whether or not you think he is telling the truth. His temperament in doing so is pretty much inconsequential. This is small ball stuff.
    I suppose that very little political discourse is persuasive these days. And I think that's a bad thing because the next step is constantly screaming at each other, followed by violence. The funny thing is how easily an argument flips when applied to the side someone disagrees with. No rush to get Garland confirmed because there's less than a year to go til the next election, but damn, we need to slam this one through before the election in 6 weeks. It's a joke. That's why like 40-45% of the current population, I'm never going to sign up for either major party. Most of the country to some degree or another is fed up with the dysfunction, but the only realistic thing to do is push the pendulum back the other direction and hope the other party screws up less. That's what's about to happen again.

    And I still apply a lot of blame for this to Gerrymandering and congressional districts designed to be completely non-competitive, among a few other things.
    Last edited by BlueK; 10-04-2018 at 12:01 PM.

  30. #960

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    The responses from Flake/Collins/Murkowski sound like Kavanaugh is on his way to the supreme court.

    I believe Ford, I believe the dems did her wrong the way they rolled it out, and believe Avenetti damaged her credibility with the way he represented his client. And that Kavanaugh really doesn't seem like that great of a SC candidate, based on his embarrassing second round of testimony.

    Whatever. I just want the circus to end.
    Kavanaugh will be interesting to watch on there. Does he act predictably like a traditional Conservative on the Court and like a Constitutional literalist, or does this episode push him to become the first unabashed Trumpian justice, the Constitution be damned as long as he backs up Trump? I might bet some money on the latter.

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