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Thread: Obamacare cost...

  1. #1
    Major disappointment The_Tick's Avatar
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    Default Obamacare cost...

    Last year when it was signed, it was penned at $900 Billion.

    Today...CBO says the actual cost will be $1.8 Trillion.

    This is my beef with the whole program. Not that I don't want people to have healthcare, because my own mother is somewhat uninsurable.

    But the price has doubled in 1 year, and they haven't even done anything with it yet.

    This is where I have a problem with the program.

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    Senior Member il Padrino Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Tick View Post
    Last year when it was signed, it was penned at $900 Billion.

    Today...CBO says the actual cost will be $1.8 Trillion.

    This is my beef with the whole program. Not that I don't want people to have healthcare, because my own mother is somewhat uninsurable.

    But the price has doubled in 1 year, and they haven't even done anything with it yet.

    This is where I have a problem with the program.
    Those who shoved this down our throats knew the true cost from the beginning, but lied about it. It's vitally important that the GOP gain enough of a majority in both the House and Senate in order to repeal this economy killer, because the Supreme Court won't overturn it, especially with the activists that Obama appointed.

    The $1.7 trillion price tag is actually only the cost for 9 years, rather than the 10 the Liar-in-Chief claims. It will cost over $2 trillion to fund it for 10 years.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gracemar...getting-worse/
    Last edited by il Padrino Ute; 03-15-2012 at 08:59 AM.
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    Senior Member Omaha 680's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
    Those who shoved this down our throats knew the true cost from the beginning, but lied about it. It's vitally important that the GOP gain enough of a majority in both the House and Senate in order to repeal this economy killer, because the Supreme Court won't overturn it, especially with the activists that Obama appointed.

    The $1.7 trillion price tag is actually only the cost for 9 years, rather than the 10 the Liar-in-Chief claims. It will cost over $2 trillion to fund it for 10 years.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gracemar...getting-worse/
    I don't go this far, but I do believe they had no idea how much it will cost and still don't. There's no way to accurately predict the costs of such a behemoth. I believe they hoped it would be under a trillion in the same way they hoped the stimulus would keep unemployment below 8%. But I think we all know how well hope works in public policy now.

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    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Tick View Post
    Last year when it was signed, it was penned at $900 Billion.

    Today...CBO says the actual cost will be $1.8 Trillion.

    This is my beef with the whole program. Not that I don't want people to have healthcare, because my own mother is somewhat uninsurable.

    But the price has doubled in 1 year, and they haven't even done anything with it yet.

    This is where I have a problem with the program.
    Is that only the cost to the government? I know actuaries are building in some increase in costs beginning in 2014 for companies that have health care plans.
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    lollygagger hostile's Avatar
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    This was written on the back of a payment envelope we received a year or so.

    "You interns are like swallows. You shit all over my patients for six weeks and then fly off."

    "Don't be sorry, it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

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    Quote Originally Posted by hostile View Post
    This was written on the back of a payment envelope we received a year or so.

    This person votes.

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    lollygagger hostile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERCougar View Post
    This person votes.

    Sometimes, I wish the property owner requirement had taken hold.
    I know. We keep it posted in the office for occasional humor.
    "You interns are like swallows. You shit all over my patients for six weeks and then fly off."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ERCougar View Post
    This person votes.

    Sometimes, I wish the property owner requirement had taken hold.
    He probably has property. I bet he's the head of his local Eagle Forum chapter.
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    Companies laying off due to Obamacare...

    Welch Allyn
    Welch Allyn, a company that manufactures medical diagnostic equipment in central New York, announced in September that they would be laying off 275 employees, or roughly 10% of their workforce over the next three years. One of the major reasons discussed for the layoffs was a proactive response to the Medical Device Tax mandated by the new healthcare law.

    Dana Holding Corp.
    As recently as a week ago, a global auto parts manufacturing company in Ohio known as Dana Holding Corp., warned their employees of potential layoffs, citing "$24 million over the next six years in additional U.S. health care expenses". After laying off several white collar staffers, company insiders have hinted at more to come. The company will have to cover the additional $24 million cost somehow, which will likely equate to numerous cuts in their current workforce of 25,500 worldwide.

    Stryker
    One of the biggest medical device manufacturers in the world, Stryker will close their facility in Orchard Park, New York, eliminating 96 jobs in December. Worse, they plan on countering the medical device tax in Obamacare by slashing 5% of their global workforce - an estimated 1,170 positions.

    Boston Scientific
    In October of 2009, Boston Scientific CEO Ray Elliott, warned that proposed taxes in the health care reform bill could "lead to significant job losses" for his company. Nearly two years later, Elliott announced that the company would be cutting anywhere between 1,200 and 1,400 jobs, while simultaneously shifting investments and workers overseas - to China.

    Medtronic
    In March of 2010, medical device maker Medtronic warned that Obamacare taxes could result in a reduction of precisely 1,000 jobs. That plan became reality when the company cut 500 positions over the summer, with another 500 set for the end of 2013.

    Others
    A short list of other companies facing future layoffs at the hands of Obamacare:
    Smith & Nephew - 770 layoffs
    Abbott Labs - 700 layoffs
    Covidien - 595 layoffs
    Kinetic Concepts - 427 layoffs
    St. Jude Medical - 300 layoffs
    Hill Rom - 200 layoffs

    Beyond the complete elimination of a significant number of American jobs is another looming problem created by the health care law - a shift from full-time to part-time workers.
    Add to the above list... My BIL was just laid off from what he was told because of rising health care costs. He had worked for his company for 20 years.
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    Where's Wallace? Surfah's Avatar
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    Papa Johns will cut employees hours and price of pizza will increase.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2104202.html
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    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    Papa Johns price of pizza will increase.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    Papa Johns will cut employees hours and price of pizza will increase.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2104202.html
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    Papa Johns will cut employees hours and price of pizza will increase.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2104202.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    Papa Johns will cut employees hours and price of pizza will increase.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2104202.html
    I can imagine swift legislation following to prevent companies with certain thresholds of employee numbers from having no full-time employees in order to avoid giving them healthcare.

    This is a stupid move, inviting the government to increase regulation.

    Also, Papa John's pizza tastes like glorified school lunch pizza, so avoiding buying them due to unfair labor practices (this is why unions can still be relevant) will be an easy task.
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  15. #15

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    That's just an unintended consequence of the legistlation. Companies aren't going to shell out 10k for a health plan when they can pay a 2500 dollar fine. The fact that companies are going to have more employees working less hours is another unintended consequence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Douger View Post
    That's just an unintended consequence of the legistlation. Companies aren't going to shell out 10k for a health plan when they can pay a 2500 dollar fine. The fact that companies are going to have more employees working less hours is another unintended consequence.
    Those that have never tried to run their own business can't understand such simple concepts. It requires too much thinking.
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    Senior Member il Padrino Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    I can imagine swift legislation following to prevent companies with certain thresholds of employee numbers from having no full-time employees in order to avoid giving them healthcare.

    This is a stupid move, inviting the government to increase regulation.

    Also, Papa John's pizza tastes like glorified school lunch pizza, so avoiding buying them due to unfair labor practices (this is why unions can still be relevant) will be an easy task.
    Should the government involve itself in the private sector to force any business to comply with an overly burdensome law like Obamacare?

    The steps taken by businesses to do this are the consequence of a shitty law that was forced on the citizens. Rather than increase regulation, perhaps the idiots who foisted this upon everyone ought to reconsider what they've done and repeal the shitty law.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Those that have never tried to run their own business can't understand such simple concepts. It requires too much thinking.
    Well, the policies enacted are so unfavorable to small business. I don't know how we'll have any economic recovery over the next several years while this is being implemented.

    A small business owner has to pay for the health plan on both sides, and the employee doesn't see what it costs. All they see is what they pay, which goes up all the time as well.

    I think we're in a lot of trouble.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    This is a stupid move, inviting the government to increase regulation.
    Are you saying that Papa John's decision is stupid? All they are doing is reacting to the current situation to try to maintain profitability. What else would you have them do?
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
    Should the government involve itself in the private sector to force any business to comply with an overly burdensome law like Obamacare?
    many consider osha overly burdensome
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    what is the cost of under/uninsurance? what about the cost of bankruptcy that results in significant part from medical costs? the incremental cost is not in the trillions.
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    Senior Member il Padrino Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by camleish View Post
    many consider osha overly burdensome
    I agree that many consider OSHA as such. But OSHA is about workplace safety, not forcing a business to provide health insurance for the employees. That's an apples to oranges comparison.
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by camleish View Post
    what is the cost of under/uninsurance? what about the cost of bankruptcy that results in significant part from medical costs? the incremental cost is not in the trillions.
    OSHA is in place to protect people against negligent employers with regards to safety, ie, protect rights.

    Employers have never been required to provide a health plan. Until now.
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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
    I agree that many consider OSHA as such. But OSHA is about workplace safety, not forcing a business to provide health insurance for the employees. That's an apples to oranges comparison.
    both are concerned with a business's obligations to an employee.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Douger View Post
    Employers have never been required to provide a health plan. Until now.
    that is not a good argument. employers were not required to comply with osha until it was passed. that does not speak to its pragmatic worth as a law.
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  25. #25
    Senior Member il Padrino Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by camleish View Post
    both are concerned with a business's obligations to an employee.
    Why is health coverage for a business an obligation?
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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
    Why is health coverage for a business an obligation?
    it's not, but that's a mischaracterization of obamacare anyway. employers pay a tax for employees receiving federally subsidized insurance from an exchange who otherwise do not have an employer sponsored plan. it's only an obligation in the same sense that employers offering suta, futa, ss, etc., are also obligations.
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  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by camleish View Post
    both are concerned with a business's obligations to an employee.



    that is not a good argument. employers were not required to comply with osha until it was passed. that does not speak to its pragmatic worth as a law.
    Sure it is. Again, OSHA is about safety in the workplace. Laws are enacted to guard people's rights. Healthcare provided by your place of employment is not a right. Being safe in your place of employement is.

    It is not, and has never been a business's obligation to provide a health plan. If they want to do so, that's their choice. This backbreaking legistlation is going to result in more unemployment and more people seeking reprieve through government entitlement programs.
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  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Douger View Post
    Sure it is. Again, OSHA is about safety in the workplace. Laws are enacted to guard people's rights. Healthcare provided by your place of employment is not a right. Being safe in your place of employement is.
    pretty authoritatively stated, that.

    It is not, and has never been a business's obligation to provide a health plan.
    see above

    This backbreaking legistlation is going to result in more unemployment and more people seeking reprieve through government entitlement programs.
    see above
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  29. #29

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    Mkay. Good talk.
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  30. #30
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Student View Post
    Are you saying that Papa John's decision is stupid? All they are doing is reacting to the current situation to try to maintain profitability. What else would you have them do?
    This is political brinkmanship and grandstanding. Negatives I see from this "decision" are.

    1. It makes me disinclined to ever eat there again (honestly, not that I'm missing much, the pizza is middling at best), and I can't be the only person to react this way to his statements.

    2. This kind of attitude shows how very little he thinks of his employees. Papa John's is not a family company.

    3. This is the kind of action that makes me believe that the rights of workers to bargain collectively should be honored.

    4. This is precisely the kind of thing that could cause politicians to enact legislation to prevent owners meeting certain thresholds of employees from doing this kind of nefarious scheduling.

    5. Is the reduction in hours really worth the increased HR costs of managing and scheduling and covering missed shifts of an extra 20-25% employees; losing business due to slow delivery times from higher employee turnover; and the crushing training costs of bringing that many more employees up to speed on the proper execution of their jobs with the concomitant high turnover that not offering full-time brings?
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