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Thread: BYU hoops for 2012-2013

  1. #481

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    Quote Originally Posted by byu71 View Post
    Offense or both offense and defense?
    Both.

    1st in scoring
    5th in scoring defense
    3rd in scoring margin
    3rd in fg%
    4th in fg% defense
    1st in rebounds
    3rd in rebounding margin
    2nd in assists
    1st in steals
    1st in turnover margin
    2nd in assist/turnover
    4th in offensive rebounds
    1st in defensive rebounds


    We are however 6th in three point % and 6th in 3pt % defense.
    *Banned*

  2. #482

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    Quote Originally Posted by cougjunkie View Post
    Both.

    1st in scoring
    5th in scoring defense
    3rd in scoring margin
    3rd in fg%
    4th in fg% defense
    1st in rebounds
    3rd in rebounding margin
    2nd in assists
    1st in steals
    1st in turnover margin
    2nd in assist/turnover
    4th in offensive rebounds
    1st in defensive rebounds


    We are however 6th in three point % and 6th in 3pt % defense.
    I would interpret it the following:
    1st in scoring, 3rd in fg%
    5th in scoring defense, 4th in fg% defense
    1st in rebounds, 3rd in rebounding margin

    All these point to the fact that we play up tempo and have more possessions both offense and defense, and have more of a chance to score points, give up points, and get rebounds than other teams.

    When you isolate on stats that don't need to be normalized for that, you get a picture of us about where we should be:
    3rd in scoring margin
    3rd in fg%
    4th in fg% defense
    3rd in rebounding margin

  3. #483
    Senior Member byu71's Avatar
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    Fans who recognize they lack the talent hope there coach is the one who can make up for the difference. There are probably a few out there, but I doubt even Coach K. could win the WCC with this team.

    The still think Rose, given the limitations, does a great job.

  4. #484

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    BYU has had a couple of poor recruiting years. Combine that with missions and this is what you get. I still think they could be a better defensive team. However, there are too many walk-ons getting too much time.

    I'm also of the belief that every good team is going to have some down years. That's just the way it is. I don't think this reflects poorly on Rose to me.
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  5. #485

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    Quote Originally Posted by WashingtonCoug View Post
    I'm also of the belief that every good team is going to have some down years. That's just the way it is. I don't think this reflects poorly on Rose to me.
    I tend to agree. The wise among us (pretty sure there was a public poll) knew this would be a down year for the Cougs. It happens. I have to think the coaching staff could do a better job with the defense - even in a down year, you can't give up 99 points to San Francisco at home - but the fact is, this roster just isn't very good.

  6. #486
    Heartless Bastard Indy Coug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    There's a gigantic range of what BYU might accomplish next year. IF

    • Carlino develops into a consistent offensive threat and learns to take care of the ball -- KIND OF, BUT NOT REALLY
    • Haws comes back not looking like a recently returned missionary -- YES
    • Rogers comes back 100% -- NO
    • Delgado can make the transition to D-1 -- NO
    • Collinsworth can rebound from multiple microfracture surgeries to be anywhere near the type of player he could have otherwise been -- NO
    • Austin continues to develop as an effective scorer and rebounder -- NO
    • Harward is the solid bench option that Austin was this year -- NO
    • Winder becomes a much more consistent shooter -- NO


    Then BYU might be as good or better than this year. However, my guess is that at least half of the items above won't happen.
    OK, let's look at which of these items happened (it ain't pretty, my friends)
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  7. #487
    Outsider looking in Blueintheface's Avatar
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    Holy crap. I'm glad I missed this weekends basketball game. I am not down on this program at all though. I like what we have coming in.
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  8. #488

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    This season hasn't been all that bad anyway....Being down 2 starters to start the season...and to lose someone who could have become a solid player in Demarcus...18 wins...probably 4-5 more coming...I'll take it.

    That being said...the Defense has to change...and if staff changes have to be made to reflect that...so be it...I'm not sure still what Nashiff does on the staff. We desperately need a defensive minded coach back on the staff....I'm sure we could get Dave Rice back...

    With the incoming players...and 2014 off to a HUGE start with Nixon and Haws....I'm happy....if BYU can get Dastrup to commit...they will have a better class than this season.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blueintheface View Post
    Holy crap. I'm glad I missed this weekends basketball game. I am not down on this program at all though. I like what we have coming in.
    If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer

  9. #489
    a.k.a. K-dog KillerDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by San Juan Sun View Post
    Just because Nashif resembles a hobbit doesn't make him a bastard.

    Regarding our defense, you are right. We played decent man defense and won several MWC titles. Occasionally we'd run a 2-3 zone , especially out of timeouts. Now we run a 2-3, a little 1-3-1, and once in a while play man as a curveball. I don't think our struggles are a coincidental thing. The big question: would we be doing worse playing predominantly man, considering our personnel?

    Regarding our offense, I think it helps to consider that only Haws, Carlino, and Davies are legit D1 starters. And all three of them have flaws too, especially Davies. Josh Sharp should be a bench, energy type guy, the 3rd/4th big off the bench. Austin tries hard, but reminds me of a clumsy puppy who sometimes mistakes hustle for plain spazzing out. Zysltra sucks, and K-dog's argument that he sucks less than the alternatives does not change the fact that he sucks. Cusick would be a ward ball all star, but he's not effective running the point. Winder is an enigma. Delgado... I don't know who he is. Augie looks like Bernie from Weekend at Bernie's.

    Bottom line, this team isn't that talented. Certainly, missing Rogers and Collinsworth due to injuries hurts. And they're not awful, they'll keep the 20 win streak alive. But they are clearly a mid-tier WCC team, not a top MWC team anymore. Hopefully this is a one year aberration, Kyle Collinsworth will help a lot. Maybe we can bury Augie and find a decent JC big man or two. I highly doubt that Mika is going to be capable of being a major frontcourt presence right away.
    True. I'm 38 and am probably still a better defender than Zylstra. Unfortunately that means we have a lot of shitty wings and no 4s. That's why this team is struggling.

  10. #490

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    I would love to see an analysis of the last 3 or 4 recruiting classes to show why this team is so under-talented. Off the top of my head:

    1) Demarcus Harrison. Rose put a ton of recruiting effort into this kid. While I don't think we're a tournament team with him this year, he would have been an incremental upgrade over our other wings.
    2) Collinsworth and Rogers. Losing them both has been devastating.
    3) Loveridge. Big miss. If he's in blue we're probably in the tournament and the next two years look a lot brighter.

    Who else did we miss on? Obviously this year's class with Delgado and Ambrosino haven't panned out but they seemed more like plan B or C guys to start with. The same goes for guys like Harward and Cusik.

  11. #491
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wapiti View Post
    I would love to see an analysis of the last 3 or 4 recruiting classes to show why this team is so under-talented. Off the top of my head:

    1) Demarcus Harrison. Rose put a ton of recruiting effort into this kid. While I don't think we're a tournament team with him this year, he would have been an incremental upgrade over our other wings.
    2) Collinsworth and Rogers. Losing them both has been devastating.
    3) Loveridge. Big miss. If he's in blue we're probably in the tournament and the next two years look a lot brighter.

    Who else did we miss on? Obviously this year's class with Delgado and Ambrosino haven't panned out but they seemed more like plan B or C guys to start with. The same goes for guys like Harward and Cusik.
    The way it seems to have always worked is that truly good LDS kids come in bunches, like every five years or so. Cleveland left Rose a nice cupboard full of talent, after he had lived a hard scrabble existence for prospects most of his time at BYU. Now BYU has just finished a recruiting drought albeit ameliorated by some real surprises from kids who vastly exceeded expectations like Jimmer, Hartsock and even Davies. For a while it looked like Rose was a magician, making silk purses out of sow's ears. Now he's got a nice haul from Lone Peak. Will Lone Peak deliver that way every year? I don't think so.

    When I was in college you had Danny Ainge, Fred Roberts, Greg Kite and Devin Durrant playing together. And in Ainge's last year BYU went to the Elite 8 but took third in the WAC, after Utah (with its own LDS bounty in Vranes, Chambers and Manion) and Wyoming. Has there ever been a group of LDS college basketball players that good assembled on a court?
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  12. #492

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    When I was in college you had Danny Ainge, Fred Roberts, Greg Kite and Devin Durrant playing together. And in Ainge's last year BYU went to the Elite 8 but took third in the WAC, after Utah (with its own LDS bounty in Vranes, Chambers and Manion) and Wyoming. Has there ever been a group of LDS college basketball players that good assembled on a court?
    That's the only time in the last 30 years where BYU and Utah fielded elite teams simultaneously. I don't think BYU or Utah can afford to split LDS/in-state talent.

    In the last 15 years Utah peaked when BYU was at a bottom and BYU peaked when Utah was at a bottom. Of course Utah was loaded with non-LDS NBA talent but had Alex Jensen and/or the Johnson brothers been at BYU the peak would have been a step or two lower.

  13. #493
    caveat lector Joe Public's Avatar
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    The jersey retirement ceremony at the half was enjoyable. I think it's great they did it while the two honorees are still alive.

  14. #494

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    Its a good thing USU is a mess right now. We need a W to get back on track before Thursday.

  15. #495

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flystripper View Post
    Its a good thing USU is a mess right now. We need a W to get back on track before Thursday.
    They did struggle initially without Medlin and Reed. They have however won 4 of 5 with the only loss coming in OT against Denver.

    They are still 18-6 on the season and a team BYU will have to play well in order to beat. BYU does not have the luxury of taking any team lightly this year.

    USU does not get blown out, their largest loss was by 13 points at New Mexico State and that was the game Medlin went down.

    They are like Utah in the sense that they like to win ugly.
    *Banned*

  16. #496

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    Quote Originally Posted by cougjunkie View Post
    They did struggle initially without Medlin and Reed. They have however won 4 of 5 with the only loss coming in OT against Denver.

    They are still 18-6 on the season and a team BYU will have to play well in order to beat. BYU does not have the luxury of taking any team lightly this year.

    USU does not get blown out, their largest loss was by 13 points at New Mexico State and that was the game Medlin went down.

    They are like Utah in the sense that they like to win ugly.
    This is all true. I have seen a good amount of USU basketball this year. Stew always gets his guys to rebound and play good D. With the way that BYU has been playing the past couple of weeks it could be challenge for us. It shouldn't be (If Haws, Davies and Carlino play at their averages), but it could be be. I guess I am hoping that we can get back on track with a decent win before Thursday.

  17. #497
    Huge Member BigPiney's Avatar
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    [YOUTUBE]HOl7Zn7aeGI[/YOUTUBE]

    Maybe this should go in the Thanks Dayton thread?

  18. #498
    Heartless Bastard Indy Coug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigPiney View Post
    [YOUTUBE]HOl7Zn7aeGI[/YOUTUBE]

    Maybe this should go in the Thanks Dayton thread?
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  19. #499

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    I like how the BYU guy hucks up a full court buzzer beater even though they're up by 19.

  20. #500

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    I'd start a new thread for this SMC game, but hey, it's probably not worth it..

    Go cougs!

  21. #501
    Clear eyes. Full hearts. Surfah's Avatar
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    Do we have a 2013-14 thread yet? Anyway, thought this was interesting. From Paul Biancardi's 5 teams to watch next season article on ESPN Insider:

    Brigham Young Cougars

    Why they're good
    Any time you go against BYU, you'd better be able to guard because Dave Rose's teams play fast and score with a chemistry on the floor. This season's team has seven guys playing double-figure minutes and gets contributions from up to nine guys on a given night. The Cougars average 78 points per game, which ties them for first in the West Coast Conference with Gonzaga and ranks fourth nationally.

    They don't shoot well from the field, but they do from the free throw line. The Cougars make 72.9 of their attempts from the stripe, tops in the West Coast Conference. They also do a good job protecting the ball, turning it over only 12 times per game. This is despite playing at the ninth-fastest pace in Division I and the fastest in the WCC.

    From a defensive standpoint, the Cougars are very strong. BYU ranks first in the conference and in the top 20 nationally for steals per game at 9.1. BYU also rebounds 72.6 percent of opponents' misses, second in the WCC.

    What they need to do better
    The Cougars have trouble shooting from 3-point range, hitting only 33.3 percent of their attempts. In essence, the Cougars are a solid team this season but don't have the ability to hang with the nation's best teams.

    Why they could be great next season
    The Cougars have a very good five-man recruiting class coming in next season (it currently ranks 15th in the country). It's not totally clear which of the freshmen will play right away, but as of right now it looks as though Nick Emery, Jakob Hartsock and Braiden Shaw will do their two-year missions right away and not play until 2015 while Eric Mika and Luke Worthington will play as freshmen.

    Mika is the hidden gem in this group. At 6-foot-9, he's an athletic, bouncy big man who runs, finishes and can score in one-on-one situations. He is a strong rebounder who can play solid defense and protect the rim.

    In addition to the incoming freshmen, guard Kyle Collinsworth -- 5.8 points and 5.1 rebounds in 25.7 minutes a night in 2010-11 -- returns from his two-year mission next season. His return, and the arrival of at least some of the freshmen, will help minimize the losses of forward Brandon Davis (18.0 points, 7.7 rebounds) and guards Brock Zylstra and Craig Cusick. Those three combine for 37.6 percent of BYU's points this season.

    Because they have guard Tyler Haws' 21.2 points per game returning and strong recruits joining an already potent offense, BYU will be better from almost every spot on the floor next season. They will have many weapons and a chance to be great in 2013-14.
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  22. #502

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    Do we have a 2013-14 thread yet? Anyway, thought this was interesting. From Paul Biancardi's 5 teams to watch next season article on ESPN Insider:
    He doesn't understand the mission thing. This years fantastic recruiting class will take 3 or 4 years to have much of an effect.

  23. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by wapiti View Post
    He doesn't understand the mission thing. This years fantastic recruiting class will take 3 or 4 years to have much of an effect.
    He says that Hartsock, Emery and Shaw are all going straight on missions. He thinks the addition Mika and return of KC will make this team better. And frankly I agree. We'll miss Davies. But I don't think we'll miss him as much as we miss Noah this year.
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  24. #504

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    He says that Hartsock, Emery and Shaw are all going straight on missions. He thinks the addition Mika and return of KC will make this team better. And frankly I agree. We'll miss Davies. But I don't think we'll miss him as much as we miss Noah this year.
    18 and 8? I've said this a few times. I think people are nuts that think we'll be better without Davies. Maybe Mika will fill in perfectly, but there's a very low probability he'll be 18/8 his frosh year. One of the biggest mistakes we have as fans is believing recruiting hype and thinking new unproven guys will replace stars. There were people who believed Quezada would easily replace Unga.

  25. #505
    Heartless Bastard Indy Coug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    18 and 8? I've said this a few times. I think people are nuts that think we'll be better without Davies. Maybe Mika will fill in perfectly, but there's a very low probability he'll be 18/8 his frosh year. One of the biggest mistakes we have as fans is believing recruiting hype and thinking new unproven guys will replace stars. There were people who believed Quezada would easily replace Unga.
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  26. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    18 and 8? I've said this a few times. I think people are nuts that think we'll be better without Davies. Maybe Mika will fill in perfectly, but there's a very low probability he'll be 18/8 his frosh year. One of the biggest mistakes we have as fans is believing recruiting hype and thinking new unproven guys will replace stars. There were people who believed Quezada would easily replace Unga.
    I said we'll miss Davies. But I do think we'll be a better team next year than we are this year. Do you think we'll be worse next year than this year?
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  27. #507
    Heartless Bastard Indy Coug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    I said we'll miss Davies. But I do think we'll be a better team next year than we are this year. Do you think we'll be worse next year than this year?
    Unless we see a significant increase in Carlino's output (along with increased consistency) and unless our outside shooters finally figure out how to shoot better than 32% from 3 point range, next year could be even worse. Davies won't be there to take the pressure off of Haws and Haws isn't good enough yet to carry an entire team on his back.

    I think the odds are 65% that we are the same or worse next year, 25% that we are just slightly better and 10% that we are significantly better.
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  28. #508

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    I don't think KC's going to make a big impact, maybe even a wash with losing Zylstra. I think there will be significant dropoff Davies to Mika. The question is how much better will the rest of them be. Carlino, Austin, and Winder didn't improve much over the previous season. Haws is a great player, but seems like he's just about tapped out the limits of his potential. I don't see us being any better next season.

  29. #509
    Senior Member byu71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    Unless we see a significant increase in Carlino's output (along with increased consistency) and unless our outside shooters finally figure out how to shoot better than 32% from 3 point range, next year could be even worse. Davies won't be there to take the pressure off of Haws and Haws isn't good enough yet to carry an entire team on his back.

    I think the odds are 65% that we are the same or worse next year, 25% that we are just slightly better and 10% that we are significantly better.

    I can't pass up this rare opportunity to agree with Indy. Mika benefits from "terrific" scorers on his team. He will not have such a luxury next year. Remember Haws is a scorer, not scorers. I think it would be a great surprise to see Mika step in and be the scorer Davies is. Therefor there will be even more opportunity to devote additional defensive pressure on Haws.

    Unless magic happened on his mission, Collinsworth isn't a scorer either. Carlino, in my non expert opinion might make a good 2 guard.

    I am a big time Rose fan. Not making the NCAA two years in a row won't lessen my positive feelings toward him. We are who we are. Knowing that makes me excited for the 2017-2018 season. That is if I am alive.

  30. #510
    Clear eyes. Full hearts. Surfah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    I don't think KC's going to make a big impact, maybe even a wash with losing Zylstra. I think there will be significant dropoff Davies to Mika. The question is how much better will the rest of them be. Carlino, Austin, and Winder didn't improve much over the previous season. Haws is a great player, but seems like he's just about tapped out the limits of his potential. I don't see us being any better next season.
    How can you say KC and BZ will be a wash? KC is a better rebounder, passer and 10x the defender BZ is. If he plays to the level he did as a freshman he will be much better than BZ as a senior.
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