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  1. #31
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    Well you'd be happy to know that the Lakers just lost on a Troy Murphy tip shot as time expired. The Lakers blew a 15 point lead in the 4th quarter.
    Wonderful news. Thanks.
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    The Lakers blew a 15 point lead in the 4th quarter.
    Kobe must have tried to take over.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    Well you'd be happy to know that the Lakers just lost on a Troy Murphy tip shot as time expired. The Lakers blew a 15 point lead in the 4th quarter.
    Sweet.

  4. #34

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    The biggest surprise for me has been Ariza. I know Vlad stretches the defense but Ariza needs more minutes.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flystripper View Post
    The biggest surprise for me has been Ariza. I know Vlad stretches the defense but Ariza needs more minutes.
    My new favorite player. He's the perfect fit. He's D first. Rebounds and scores without the ball. I told my brother in law that I'd take Ariza any day of the week over Turiaf who used to be my favorite Laker next to he who shall not be named.
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  6. #36
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    Good to see Los Lagueros back on track after a shocking loss to the upstart Pacers.

    I know this Laker team ranks near or at the top defensively, but I still get the same old heebs when I see them let little guards run roughshod through the paint.

    15-2 is a nice start but this team still has some serious work to do defensively before it can think about a title. And in case nobody has noticed, Boston has quietly been dominating its way back into the best winning percentage in the league.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    Good to see Los Lagueros back on track after a shocking loss to the upstart Pacers.

    I know this Laker team ranks near or at the top defensively, but I still get the same old heebs when I see them let little guards run roughshod through the paint.

    15-2 is a nice start but this team still has some serious work to do defensively before it can think about a title. And in case nobody has noticed, Boston has quietly been dominating its way back into the best winning percentage in the league.
    Yeah that was a nice bounce back on the second half of a back to back. The Celtics are taking it to the Pacers right now. The Lakers need to get the killer instinct and bury teams when thy can. The second team got cute last night and lost the lead and then the starters couldn't turn the momentum and merely kept pace. Still 15-2 and they have drubbed some great teams including Houston, New Orleans, Phoenix, Blazers, Dallas, etc.
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  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    scores without the ball.
    That's a pretty neat trick. How does he do that?

  9. #39
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    OK, time for a bit of a reality gut check.

    25% into the season and here is what I know about the Lakers:

    1. Defense has definitely improved over last season. The Lakers are now hovering around 4th place in overall defensive efficiency, behind the Celtics (no surprise there) and the Cavs and Magic (bigger surprises).
    2. Overall offensive efficiency has been stellar. Again, the Lakers are in 3rd place, behind Cleveland and Portland.
    3. Bench play....I think the Laker bench is tops in the league. The shifting of Odom from starter to bench has worked out very well and Ariza is quickly becoming a household name for his defense, steals, and vastly improved shooting.
    4. Unfortunately, the same bad habits that plagued the Lakers last season are already apparent this season...small guards and protecting the paint seem to be the Lakers achilles heel. The addition of Bynum was supposed to help (and it has), but the past 6 or 7 games have been unimpressive from a defensive standpoint. Last season the Lakers would fall behind and then expend a lot of energy in the 3rd quarter/early 4th coming back. This season, the Lakers are blowing big leads in the 4th quarter and hanging on.

    Overall, not complaining.....yet. The Lakers still enjoy a nice MOV. But they lost last June because of defense. And thus far, Boston has proved it is the better defensive team this season. If the Lakers don't get serious about locking down the paint, it will be a Celtic repeat.

    One other thought.....while everyone assumes it to be a foregone conclusion that the Lakers and Celtics will play in the Finals, Lebron has not so quietly dragged Cleveland at a torrid pace and look almost as good as Boston and LA. Keep in mind that Boston was only a heartbeat away from losing last playoffs. A Cleveland/Boston matchup this post-season could prove to be VERY interesante.
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  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    OK, time for a bit of a reality gut check.

    25% into the season and here is what I know about the Lakers:

    1. Defense has definitely improved over last season. The Lakers are now hovering around 4th place in overall defensive efficiency, behind the Celtics (no surprise there) and the Cavs and Magic (bigger surprises).
    2. Overall offensive efficiency has been stellar. Again, the Lakers are in 3rd place, behind Cleveland and Portland.
    3. Bench play....I think the Laker bench is tops in the league. The shifting of Odom from starter to bench has worked out very well and Ariza is quickly becoming a household name for his defense, steals, and vastly improved shooting.
    4. Unfortunately, the same bad habits that plagued the Lakers last season are already apparent this season...small guards and protecting the paint seem to be the Lakers achilles heel. The addition of Bynum was supposed to help (and it has), but the past 6 or 7 games have been unimpressive from a defensive standpoint. Last season the Lakers would fall behind and then expend a lot of energy in the 3rd quarter/early 4th coming back. This season, the Lakers are blowing big leads in the 4th quarter and hanging on.

    Overall, not complaining.....yet. The Lakers still enjoy a nice MOV. But they lost last June because of defense. And thus far, Boston has proved it is the better defensive team this season. If the Lakers don't get serious about locking down the paint, it will be a Celtic repeat.

    One other thought.....while everyone assumes it to be a foregone conclusion that the Lakers and Celtics will play in the Finals, Lebron has not so quietly dragged Cleveland at a torrid pace and look almost as good as Boston and LA. Keep in mind that Boston was only a heartbeat away from losing last playoffs. A Cleveland/Boston matchup this post-season could prove to be VERY interesante.
    If the Zen Master could just convince Kobe that he doesn't need to lead the league in scoring, the Lakers might be undefeated right now. The Lakers have yet to lose when Kobe scores below his 25 point average. In the three losses, Kobe has taken 21, 25 and 30 shots. They have too many weapons on offense - guys who are efficient scorers - for Kobe to be taking 20+ shots.

    Last night, Bynum, Gasol and Odom tool 29 shots. Kobe took 25 shots. Bynum, Gasol and Odom are shooting 56%, 56% and 50% respectively. Kobe is shooting 46%.
    Last edited by smokymountainrain; 12-10-2008 at 02:42 PM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    If the Zen Master could just convince Kobe that he doesn't need to lead the league in scoring, the Lakers might be undefeated right now. The Lakers have yet to lose when Kobe scores below his 25 point average. In the three losses, Kobe has taken 21, 25 and 30 shots. They have too many weapons on offense - guys who are efficient scorers - for Kobe to be taking 20+ shots.
    A few things...

    1. Kobe isn't leading the league in scoring. He is in 5th place.
    2. The problem isn't the Laker offense....they lead the league in overall ppg at about 108 and are second only to Cavs in MOV, at 11. They are the only 2 teams to have an ave MOV in the double digits.

    How much more offense do they need?

    It is their defense that needs the help.

    Again, I am nitpicking. The Lakers are in first place in the West and have the second best record in the NBA.

    But this whole season is about 10 days in June and thus far, the Lakers don't look ready. At least imo.
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  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    A few things...

    1. Kobe isn't leading the league in scoring. He is in 5th place.

    I should clarify my comment on this one. I know he isn't leading the league in scoring, but the way he shoots sometimes, it sure seems like he thinks he needs to be.

    2. The problem isn't the Laker offense....they lead the league in overall ppg at about 108 and are second only to Cavs in MOV, at 11. They are the only 2 teams to have an ave MOV in the double digits.

    How much more offense do they need?

    This is a fair point, but I also don't think it's a coincidence that when he involves other players more rather than chucking, the Lakers chances of winning are significantly improved. I'm not sure he realizes it or just doesn't care. Just my opinion, but I feel like when guys get thrown a bone on offense, they tend to play better defense.


    But this whole season is about 10 days in June and thus far, the Lakers don't look ready. At least imo.
    You are nitpicking and they may not be ready, but they are ridiculously good and if the Jazz can right the ship, the Lakers scare me. If the Jazz can't right the ship, it may not matter.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    You are nitpicking and they may not be ready, but they are ridiculously good and if the Jazz can right the ship, the Lakers scare me. If the Jazz can't right the ship, it may not matter.
    You are right on the offense. This was Shaq's contention the entire time....throw the dog the bone and he will guard the yard.

    I kind of tune out the Kobe haters because they don't watch the Laker games (not saying you are in this category). Because of these ridiculously large leads, Kobe has been sitting quite a bit during late 3rd/4th quarter.

    In several instances, Jax puts in the second unit and they are the ones that give up the lead. Kobe's shooting isn't likely the culprit here. If I had to put a finger on the main problem, it would be that the current rotation leaves too many defensive liabilities on the floor in the second unit. I still can't figure out when Bynum will stay with the second or when Gasol will stay. It is erratic at best. Plus, there are times when Mihm comes in (yikes) to rest both Bynum and Gasol, then you have a double whammy liability because at least Bynum and Gasol can score regularly....Mihm doesn't even give you that, so the lead shrinks even faster (no defense, no offense).

    That being said, you are correct in that keeping these guys involved in the only way this team will remain deadly on offense. The chemistry with these guys has been at an all-time high the past season or so. While Kobe won't win the MVP this year, he is doing everything he can possibly do.

    The current squad has already showed the ability to play defense. Again, nitpicking because as it stands they are 4th in the league in overall D....but they dropped. At about the 12 or 14 game mark, they were second, I believe. They need to figure out how to bring out the intensity for every game. last night's game against Sac was NOT a good example of how to get that done. Trailing by 5 at the half and not closing out an easy road win.

    Jazz are in trouble until D-Will gets healthy and right. Bottom line. They just can't do it without him at 100%. And even then it will be tough. Assuming everyone is healthy, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Lakers/Jazz finals or semi finals, though.
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  14. #44
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Case in point.

    Suns trade Raja and Boris, Shaq is out of town at his grandmother's funeral, and the Lakers are trailing Phoenix by 1 point and it is almost the 4th quarter.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    Case in point.

    Suns trade Raja and Boris, Shaq is out of town at his grandmother's funeral, and the Lakers are trailing Phoenix by 1 point and it is almost the 4th quarter.
    Wow the D they played the first 15 games of the season has been non existent in the last week.
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  16. #46
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    This is hysterical. BGRTHNUMEGO has taken over DDD's account.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkGrace View Post
    This is hysterical. BGRTHNUMEGO has taken over DDD's account.
    How so? I haven't used any stats to show that Deron Williams is better than Chris Paul.
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  18. #48
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    Offensive efficiency, defensive efficiency, MOV. It's like I went away and came back to a whole new DDD er...BGRTHNUMEGO. It's like -- gasp -- an actual basketball discussion.
    Last edited by MarkGrace; 12-11-2008 at 10:15 AM.

  19. #49
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    The Lakers are unwatchable at times. As a fan, it's difficult to sit there and watch them not give a crap for 40 minutes, and then decide it's time to win. I was hopeful when the season started that they were on a "Quest" to destroy teams, and go for the throat when the build that 12-15 point lead. Now, just a couple weeks later, they look like the same old Lakers who know they can turn on the offense in the closing minutes, and pull games out. As others have already said on this thread, the defense they played to start the year has already deteriorated. They have so much on offense, it likely won't matter until the finals where they will again be exposed if things don't change.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkGrace View Post
    Offensive efficiency, defensive efficiency, MOV. It's like I went away and came back to a whole new DDD er...BGRTHNUMEGO.
    Nah, I have always been fine with a few rankings here and there....who has the best overall offense, the best overall defense.

    The schtick I find to be ridiculous is when we start looking at minutae for individual players. I find that to be boring. Williams, Paul.....the endless debate comparing their PER...who cares....neither made it to the Finals last year and neither will make it this year.

    I have tried to be realistic about the Lakers. I was surprised they made it to the Finals last year because I thought their best chance was making it to the WCF and then losing to the Spurs. They obviously hit their stride in May and they made into the Finals. This year, I completely expect them to make it to the Finals. Based off the first 15 or so games, I would have said that they would be able to clamp down on Boston. But like I noted above, their poor habits have resurfaced. Now I am not convinced they can even keep Rondo out of the paint.

    It seems to be easier for teams to play great offense all season than to commit to great defense. I would have assumed that running all game would tax you more physically, but by many accounts, playing lock down defense is more draining, which is why teams have a hard time being consistent. Boston has found that consistency. The Lakers haven't.

    But I do think that barring injuries, this entire season is a huge waste of time. It will be LA and Boston again in the Finals.
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  21. #51
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    The schtick I find to be ridiculous is when we start looking at minutae for individual players. I find that to be boring. Williams, Paul.....the endless debate comparing their PER...who cares....neither made it to the Finals last year and neither will make it this year.
    The funnest part. You are clearly a fun hater. You must also be a freedom hater.

  22. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    The schtick I find to be ridiculous is when we start looking at minutae for individual players. I find that to be boring. Williams, Paul.....the endless debate comparing their PER...who cares....neither made it to the Finals last year and neither will make it this year.
    No wonder you are a Dodger fan you are the perfect fit for their screw stats style of management. Sure the NBA isn't nearly as exciting as MLB for individual stats, but the advanced statistics are great. It will be great once basketball prospectus gets going at full speed, but it will always be inferior to baseball prospectus.

  23. #53
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    Basketball stats will always be inferior to baseball because of the inability to isolate performance. They are advancing and getting more interesting every year, but they'll never be able to tell us much about a player as baseball.

  24. #54
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    No wonder you are a Dodger fan you are the perfect fit for their screw stats style of management. Sure the NBA isn't nearly as exciting as MLB for individual stats, but the advanced statistics are great. It will be great once basketball prospectus gets going at full speed, but it will always be inferior to baseball prospectus.
    I can only think of one good use for baseball stats.
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  25. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I can only think of one good use for baseball stats.
    If you one good use is improving your overall quality of life, I agree with you.

  26. #56
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    If you one good use is improving your overall quality of life, I agree with you.
    As a matter of fact, it does impact my quality of life.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  27. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkGrace View Post
    Basketball stats will always be inferior to baseball because of the inability to isolate performance. They are advancing and getting more interesting every year, but they'll never be able to tell us much about a player as baseball.
    Did you see basketball prospectus player projections for the year. It was a very interesting project and will be even more interesting to see how accurate it is after the first season. You are right though how much more difficult it is to create basketball statistics. It is more on par with trying to establish good statistics to measure defensive contributions in baseball.

    http://www.basketballprospectus.com/...?articleid=423

  28. #58
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    For those BYU fans that are suffering from shock and jealousy, take heart....at least you missed Utah's loss to the Lakers tonight.

    The Celtics have quietly lost some games. Now the Lakers and Celtics are all tied up in the loss column.

    Official upset alert: the Cavaliers were only a quarter away from beating the Celtics and going to the NBA finals last summer. They also have only 5 losses so far this season.
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  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    For those BYU fans that are suffering from shock and jealousy, take heart....at least you missed Utah's loss to the Lakers tonight.
    I only count Jazz road losses if they are wearing the baby blues. To me tonight never happened.

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    For those BYU fans that are suffering from shock and jealousy, take heart....at least you missed Utah's loss to the Lakers tonight.

    The Celtics have quietly lost some games. Now the Lakers and Celtics are all tied up in the loss column.

    Official upset alert: the Cavaliers were only a quarter away from beating the Celtics and going to the NBA finals last summer. They also have only 5 losses so far this season.
    I kept an eye on the score while watching the Utes destory Bama. One of the bright spots for me.
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