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  • #46
    Originally posted by Harry Tic View Post
    I also agree that OSC's personal beliefs may be retrograde in many respects: he comes across as a loudmouth and a lout in the essays I have read.
    Yep, and this is why I can't muster much sympathy for him. He used to do a weekly column in the religion section of the Des News and they were often atrocious. He should have stuck with scifi.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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    • #47
      Interesting article in Slate on OSC's political views. Holy cow, he is a nut.

      http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/20..._personal.html

      Predicts that Obama will organize "urban gangs" into his own secret police force.

      Where will he get his "national police"? The NaPo will be recruited from "young out-of-work urban men" and it will be hailed as a cure for the economic malaise of the inner cities.

      In other words, Obama will put a thin veneer of training and military structure on urban gangs, and send them out to channel their violence against Obama's enemies.

      Instead of doing drive-by shootings in their own neighborhoods, these young thugs will do beatings and murders of people "trying to escape" -- people who all seem to be leaders and members of groups that oppose Obama.
      In fairness to OSC, he wrote the source essay as a "silly thought experiment".

      http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2013-05-09-1.html

      But wow, what a ridiculous thing to write in any context.
      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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      • #48
        I listened to Ender's Game in the car on a long trip last week, having last read it maybe 15 years ago. Here's a completely unoriginal thought:That such a spectacular book was produced by such a foolish mind is vexing.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
          Ender's Game is a novel whose target reading audience is older children and teens. It's middle grade/YA. I'm sorry the other part of my statement came off the wrong way. But I do detect a suspicious kind of religious fervor among the novel's older admirers. I don't think you know the make up of beliefs or religious or social affiliations among majority age admirers of Ender's Game.

          Personally, I greatly admire and have enjoyed the Ring despite Wagner's anti-semitism, and The Brothers Karamazov despite Dostoevski's anti-semitism and Russia superiorty complex, and War and Peace despite Tolstoy's wrong headed fielty to Russian royalty and noble classes. Time will tell whether Ender's Game has truly climbed to the pantheon of the classics from the realm of popular culture phenomenon such that its artistic value compels us to overlook its creator's massive flaws (actually, I've observed that outside their creations it's not unusual for novelists to be misguided).

          However, I'm just stating a practical reality. In cinema PR counts for a lot. Apparently the audience has to admire at least the actors. Witness Mel Gibson's and Tom Cruise's free fall in their careers after their retrograde beliefs were exposed.
          Tom Cruise has had quite a run of money making movies in the last few years with his highest grossing ever released in 2011.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
            Interesting article in Slate on OSC's political views. Holy cow, he is a nut.

            http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/20..._personal.html

            Predicts that Obama will organize "urban gangs" into his own secret police force.



            In fairness to OSC, he wrote the source essay as a "silly thought experiment".

            http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2013-05-09-1.html

            But wow, what a ridiculous thing to write in any context.
            A little more context, from the cited essay, he begins with:
            This is the column where I predict how American democracy ends.

            No, no, it's just a silly thought experiment! I'm not serious about this! Nobody can predict the future! It's just a game. The game of Unlikely Events.
            And ends with:
            Just kidding. Because if I really believed this stuff, would I actually write this essay?
            Seems a little unfair to then take what he said in between seriously.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Jacob View Post
              A little more context, from the cited essay, he begins with:

              And ends with:

              Seems a little unfair to then take what he said in between seriously.
              Did you read the entire essay? Including the long introduction? It is tough to tell when the real thoughts end and the "silly thought experiment" begins. The guy is a nut.
              "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
              "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
              "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                Did you read the entire essay? Including the long introduction? It is tough to tell when the real thoughts end and the "silly thought experiment" begins. The guy is a nut.
                Yes, it is quite the odd essay. I'm not a big fan. But when he starts and ends by telling us that he's not serious, why should we quibble? He says he was writing fiction. It's not satire, I don't think. Talking about eating babies would seem to be wrong in any context, as you say. This is not that, and is strange. But he didn't try to pass it off as anything other than fiction.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                  Yes, it is quite the odd essay. I'm not a big fan. But when he starts and ends by telling us that he's not serious, why should we quibble? He says he was writing fiction. It's not satire, I don't think. Talking about eating babies would seem to be wrong in any context, as you say. This is not that, and is strange. But he didn't try to pass it off as anything other than fiction.
                  Well I suppose it isn't about eating babies, but writing about Obama organizing black gangs into his personal killing squads (in any context) is pretty out there.

                  Free advice: If you are going to try to convince people that your lunatic thought experiment doesn't contain some elements of what you really believe, don't write a long, scathing diatribe as your introduction.
                  "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                  "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                  "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Here is the problem even as a "thought exercise" there are racist elements that are frankly disturbing and demonstrate that OSC is a nutjob, not that we needed more evidence that he is a nutjob.
                    As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
                    --Kendrick Lamar

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by mpfunk View Post
                      Here is the problem even as a "thought exercise" there are racist elements that are frankly disturbing and demonstrate that OSC is a nutjob, not that we needed more evidence that he is a nutjob.
                      Orson Scott Card is turning into the Jon McNaughton of science fiction.
                      Nothing lasts, but nothing is lost.
                      --William Blake, via Shpongle

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Harry Tic View Post
                        Orson Scott Card is turning into the Jon McNaughton of science fiction.
                        That is pretty much a perfect description of him, except that I wouldn't say that he turning into it but that he is already there.
                        As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
                        --Kendrick Lamar

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                        • #57
                          I can't wait to see the movie. I'm probably going to eat at Chick-fil-a right before the showing.
                          "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                            I can't wait to see the movie. I'm probably going to eat at Chick-fil-a right before the showing.
                            That reminds me: BYU apparently now has a Chick-fil-a. (http://universe.byu.edu/2013/08/05/1...-soft-opening/). Since the deal has supposedly been in the works for several years, it's not necessarily a statement vis-a-vis the culture wars. But, still, I think it would be a nice gesture to BYU's half-dozen flaming liberals to soften the blow by finally legalizing caffeinated beverages on campus as a quid pro quo.

                            Sorry. Back now to OSC.
                            Nothing lasts, but nothing is lost.
                            --William Blake, via Shpongle

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by mpfunk View Post
                              That is pretty much a perfect description of him, except that I wouldn't say that he turning into it but that he is already there.
                              Has anyone read any of his latest stuff? I've only ever read the original and then maybe 2 or 3 others in the Ender or Ender's Shadow series. McNaughton is hilarious because he sucks; OSC had legit chops. Is his latest work turning crazy/incompetent or is he still compartmentalizing?

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                              • #60
                                OSC is a lot more prolific than I thought. The Ender canon has ballooned to at least 15 books now, and that's still a minority of his total output. Reviews seem pretty mixed on some of them. There are so many out-of-order Ender sequels I'm less likely to try to figure out which one to read next.

                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_...d_bibliography

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