Ender's Game movie

[SeattleUte]

This statement is either false or vacuous, but perhaps it was cathartic in some way to type that series of words in that particular order. Historically, most readers of OSC, I would wager, haven't given a damn about his 'world view' or even known what it is (of course this doesn't go for his Mormon readers, who, SU would probably be astounded to learn, are not in the majority). And if they have, they have probably dismissed it as irrelevant to his work.

As for the more substantial point about OSC's plea for 'tolerance,' it is kind of pathetic, but not in the way the article suggests. It is pathetic that one should feel an obligation to either toe the line on some given cultural issue or to shut the hell up. And it is more pathetic still to argue that a reader or viewer must scrutinize an author's work beforehand to make sure that they antecedently agree with his or her views on the social issues of the day. Of course this kind of Victorianism has long been an operating premise for most LDS consumers of media. To see it gain a greater foothold in our culture is distressing.

Ender's Game is a novel whose target reading audience is older children and teens. It's middle grade/YA. I'm sorry the other part of my statement came off the wrong way. But I do detect a suspicious kind of religious fervor among the novel's older admirers. I don't think you know the make up of beliefs or religious or social affiliations among majority age admirers of Ender's Game.

Personally, I greatly admire and have enjoyed the Ring despite Wagner's anti-semitism, and The Brothers Karamazov despite Dostoevski's anti-semitism and Russia superiorty complex, and War and Peace despite Tolstoy's wrong headed fielty to Russian royalty and noble classes. Time will tell whether Ender's Game has truly climbed to the pantheon of the classics from the realm of popular culture phenomenon such that its artistic value compels us to overlook its creator's massive flaws (actually, I've observed that outside their creations it's not unusual for novelists to be misguided).

However, I'm just stating a practical reality. In cinema PR counts for a lot. Apparently the audience has to admire at least the actors. Witness Mel Gibson's and Tom Cruise's free fall in their careers after their retrograde beliefs were exposed.

[Harry Tic]

Ender's Game is a novel whose target reading audience is older children and teens. It's middle grade/YA. I'm sorry the other part of my statement came off the wrong way. But I do detect a suspicious kind of religious fervor among the novel's older admirers. I don't think you know the make up of beliefs or religious or social affiliations among majority age admirers of Ender's Game.

However, I'm just stating a practical reality. In cinema PR counts for a lot. Apparently the audience has to admire at least the actors. Witness Mel Gibson's and Tom Cruise's free fall in their careers after their retrograde beliefs were exposed.

I agree on both counts: Ender's Game is a fair-to-middling novel that tends to speak to adolescents that fancy themselves, like Ender, to be precocious and misunderstood. It's a common enough conceit. EG is an agreeable enough read, I suppose, although I struggled through it at times. OSC thinks that he understands child/YA psychology much better than he actually does and his character development is weak, to put it gently. The 'twist' at the end of the book is so simplistic that I can't imagine that it any satisfies any mature reader. It also makes it extremely easy to ruin the book or movie for the uninitiated with a single sentence. That could never happen with a work of serious literature.

I also agree that OSC's personal beliefs may be retrograde in many respects: he comes across as a loudmouth and a lout in the essays I have read. But I don't believe in affixing red letters to chests. As it happens, I often teach literary works to extremely sheltered young people (predominantly LDS) who commonly view this or that detail about an author's personal life or world view as a reason for dismissing their work out of hand. It will be interesting to see how they feel when the tables are turned on them.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Ender's Game is a novel whose target reading audience is older children and teens. It's middle grade/YA. I'm sorry the other part of my statement came off the wrong way. But I do detect a suspicious kind of religious fervor among the novel's older admirers. I don't think you know the make up of beliefs or religious or social affiliations among majority age admirers of Ender's Game.

Personally, I greatly admire and have enjoyed the Ring despite Wagner's anti-semitism, and The Brothers Karamazov despite Dostoevski's anti-semitism and Russia superiorty complex, and War and Peace despite Tolstoy's wrong headed fielty to Russian royalty and noble classes. Time will tell whether Ender's Game has truly climbed to the pantheon of the classics from the realm of popular culture phenomenon such that its artistic value compels us to overlook its creator's massive flaws (actually, I've observed that outside their creations it's not unusual for novelists to be misguided).

However, I'm just stating a practical reality. In cinema PR counts for a lot. Apparently the audience has to admire at least the actors. Witness Mel Gibson's and Tom Cruise's free fall in their careers after their retrograde beliefs were exposed.

LOL. Yes, if OSC's work eventually rises to the level of Wagner, Dostoevski, or Tolstoy, then by God we might be able to finally forgive him for being a Mormon.

(Please, please don't stop posting.)

[Non Sequitur]

Why is he an ass? Because he used to disagree with you over gay rights? Do you hate everyone who disagrees with you?

Why is OSC seen as a hypocrite over gay issues? Does he not have the right to change his mind, like oh, 98% of the american public? Why wouldn't his change of mind be welcomed?

I am also interested to see if the same folks who asked for tolerance for decades will now get out their pitchforks and torches.

He's an ass because his epiphany occurred at the exact same time that he was selling his movie. It's not just crass, it's transparently crass.

[Katy Lied]

He's an ass because his epiphany occurred at the exact same time that he was selling his movie. It's not just crass, it's transparently crass.

His epiphany occurred at the exact same time that the Supreme Court ruled in favor of gay marriage. The movie doesnt come out for another 5 months. He's been selling books all along, introducing at least 3 new titles so far this summer. How come he didn't change his mind when his books came out?

LOL. Yes, if OSC's work eventually rises to the level of Wagner, Dostoevski, or Tolstoy, then by God we might be able to finally forgive him for being a Mormon.

I count Tolstoy as a Mormon.

[Non Sequitur]

His epiphany occurred at the exact same time that the Supreme Court ruled in favor of gay marriage. The movie doesnt come out for another 5 months. He's been selling books all along, introducing at least 3 new titles so far this summer. How come he didn't change his mind when his books came out?

He made his comments in response to the potential boycott of his movie. Just because he says he had a change of heart when the ruling was handed down, doesn't make it so. When I see a statement from him affirming his change of heart that occurred before the controversy of his movie, I will stand corrected.

[SeattleUte]

LOL. Yes, if OSC's work eventually rises to the level of Wagner, Dostoevski, or Tolstoy, then by God we might be able to finally forgive him for being a Mormon.

(Please, please don't stop posting.)

I had to resort to those examples because frankly I can't think of any examples of artists achieving popular culture success where the creators held what mainstream society regarded as crackpot or reprehensible views unless those views were exposed subsequent to such success. I submit that were OSC to have issued racist instead of anit-gay rhetoric, Ender's Game may not even have been published and it would not be as widely admired as it is today. Literary appreciation involves a lot of subjectivity. I have to admit Mel Gibson's racism affects my abilty to enjoy his films. America's perhaps most admired novel, Moby Dick, wasn't even that admired until the 1940s. Social progress with respect to homosexual interests has lagged considerably behind racial social justice. Which leads me to Harry Tic's point, rightly or wrongly it's a reality that Orson Scott Card's opinioins about gays could affect the succcess of the Ender's Game film. It's not about him being a Mormon. Donnie and Marie were Mormons too.

[ERCougar]

He made his comments in response to the potential boycott of his movie. Just because he says he had a change of heart when the ruling was handed down, doesn't make it so. When I see a statement from him affirming his change of heart that occurred before the controversy of his movie, I will stand corrected.

I'm no fan--i just read EG for the first time with my son in anticipation of the movie--but I didn't read his comment as a change of heart. He says the issue is not because the supreme court has ruled, but really left his personal feelings on the matter a little vague.

I think he's LAUte.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[SoCalCoug]

http://skipendersgame.com/



And OSC responds:

So in other words, he wants everyone to tolerate his intolerance of gay marriage. Right?

[Indy Coug]

I'm just glad we managed to make another CS thread be about gay marriage.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I'm just glad we managed to make another CS thread be about gay marriage.

Cha-ching.

http://www.cougarstadium.com/showthr...l=1#post915838

[jay santos]

I'm just glad we managed to make another CS thread be about gay marriage.

Gay marriage is the new pornography.

[Indy Coug]

Gay marriage is the new pornography.

Does it have better music?

[smokymountainrain]

Does it have better music?

[woot]

I'm no fan--i just read EG for the first time with my son in anticipation of the movie--but I didn't read his comment as a change of heart. He says the issue is not because the supreme court has ruled, but really left his personal feelings on the matter a little vague.

I think he's LAUte.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

That was my thought. I don't see where he's had a change of heart at all; he's just decided it's time for damage control and appeals for tolerance rather than continuing the campaign against tolerance.