A new Word of Wisdom

[creekster]

Sure, anything can be taken to it's extreme. But in most cases and when in doubt, it's better to strive for inclusion. We are all on this train together. Like this guy once said:

“We can all be a little kinder, a little more generous, a little more thoughtful of one another. We can be a little more tolerant and friendly to those not of our faith, going out of our way to show our respect for them. We cannot afford to be arrogant or self-righteous. It is our obligation to reach out in helpfulness not only to our own but to all others as well.”

Thats a good sentiment and approach, but if you stand and up and say "Please join me in reciting the Lord's Prayer, but use whatever words you like" things may have gone a bit too far.

[swampfrog]

Sure, anything can be taken to it's extreme. But in most cases and when in doubt, it's better to strive for inclusion. We are all on this train together. Like this guy once said:

“We can all be a little kinder, a little more generous, a little more thoughtful of one another. We can be a little more tolerant and friendly to those not of our faith, going out of our way to show our respect for them. We cannot afford to be arrogant or self-righteous. It is our obligation to reach out in helpfulness not only to our own but to all others as well.”

My original point wasn't against the idea of inclusion itself, it was the raising it to one of the highest ideals. That's when it becomes a problem. It comes in conflict with other virtues. That is happening in specific areas of our country.

Also from the same link, "For example, I’ve been studying the research on affirmative action and diversity training. As far as I can tell there’s no evidence that they make things better and there is some evidence that it makes things worse. Now, it’s messy. I can’t say for sure that they do, but the point is, we seem to be doing things on campus that are making things worse. The activists are largely asking for things that will make things worse. Much more affirmative action, much bigger racial preferences, which will cause much bigger gaps between Asians at the top and African-Americans at the bottom. Which is going to inflame prejudice, not reduce it.

Once you make something a religion, you’re not open to evidence. You do really crazy, stupid things. What I would say is, let’s not have a replacement for religion. Let’s set things up so that there isn’t a big religion that unites us all to take on our enemies. Let’s try to return to a climate in which people find meaning and purpose in their private lives and in their smaller associations, but we don’t have a big sense of national purpose."

[Northwestcoug]

Thats a good sentiment and approach, but if you stand and up and say "Please join me in reciting the Lord's Prayer, but use whatever words you like" things may have gone a bit too far.

Eh. We live in a namby pamby multicultural society. This doesn't strike me as going too far.

[creekster]

Eh. We live in a namby pamby multicultural society. This doesn't strike me as going too far.

What? That's like asking the congregation at church to recite the sacramental prayer but go ahead and say anything in it you want. Because, you know, we are all about inclusion. You might want to do it that way, but it is no longer the sacramental prayer.

[Solon]

In the internment service at the National Cathedral this morning, the officiant just asked the congregation to join her in the Lord's Prayer "using the beliefs and words with which you are most comfortable." How does that constitute the Lord's Prayer?

You guys are totally overthinking this,
This is clearly an attempt to include those who recognize the doxology of the Lord's Prayer and those who don't.
Inclusion is great and all, but I'm sure this is all about the New Testament manuscript tradition.

[creekster]

You guys are totally overthinking this,
This is clearly an attempt to include those who recognize the doxology of the Lord's Prayer and those who don't.
Inclusion is great and all, but I'm sure this is all about the New Testament manuscript tradition.

I wondered if that was possible, but that seems lijke a pretty minor thing to call out like that.

[Northwestcoug]

What? That's like asking the congregation at church to recite the sacramental prayer but go ahead and say anything in it you want. Because, you know, we are all about inclusion. You might want to do it that way, but it is no longer the sacramental prayer.

I'm arguing out of my element here. Is the Lord's Prayer sacramental in other congregations? If so, and if it has the same meaning as prayers/ordinances in the LDS church, then OK. I can see pushback on that. But the way I'm reading it is more of a unitarian vibe. It happened at the National Cathedral, and even though it's an episcopalian church, both secular and religious events are held there.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yes. That or a pentecostal church, where incoherent babbling is proof of the Lord's inspiration. I don't think snakes were involved in this service, though.

In the spirit of Solon's post, all that stuff about handling snakes was added to the book of Mark much later by some over-eager scribes. Kind of funny when you think about it.

[Solon]

I wondered if that was possible, but that seems lijke a pretty minor thing to call out like that.

Oh yeah, I was just being silly.
FWIW, calling this "The Lord's Prayer" betrays Protestant sympathies anyway. American Catholics usually call this prayer the "Our Father".

[Babs]

In the spirit of Solon's post, all that stuff about handling snakes was added to the book of Mark much later by some over-eager scribes. Kind of funny when you think about it.

That’s pretty far down on the irony list when it comes to post-hoc additions.

[Jeff Lebowski]

That’s pretty far down on the irony list when it comes to post-hoc additions.

OK, smarty pants. Let's see your list.

[Babs]

Oh yeah, I was just being silly.
FWIW, calling this "The Lord's Prayer" betrays Protestant sympathies anyway. American Catholics usually call this prayer the "Our Father".

She didn’t call it the Lord’s Prayer or anything else. Not sure if/how it was labeled on the program.

[BigFatMeanie]

Yes. That or a pentecostal church, where incoherent babbling is proof of the Lord's inspiration. I don't think snakes were involved in this service, though.

I love me some holy rollers! I lived in an apartment next to a pentecostal church once. They would sing Albert Hay Malotte's arrangement of the Lord's Prayer at the end of every service. They started out really slow and subdued and by the end of the song had worked themselves up into a lather, shrieking the "for thine is the kingdom..." part at the top of their lungs.

[Babs]

I love me some holy rollers! I lived in an apartment next to a pentecostal church once. They would sing Albert Hay Malotte's arrangement of the Lord's Prayer at the end of every service. They started out really slow and subdued and by the end of the song had worked themselves up into a lather, shrieking the "for thine is the kingdom..." part at the top of their lungs.

It’d be awesome if they scheduled a flyover to coincide with FOREVERANDEVER!

[tooblue]

Giving up alcohol may improve mental well-being, study finds

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...g-study-finds/

“Our study provides more evidence suggesting caution in recommending moderate drinking as part of a healthy diet,” co-author Michael Ni, a clinical assistant professor in the school of public health at the University of Hong Kong, wrote in an e-mail. “Quitting drinking even at moderate levels was shown to be linked to a favourable change in mental well-being in both Chinese and Americans.”