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Thread: US Soccer

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    I hate to be like SU talking down to BYU fans, but I don't think there was necessarily anything anyone did wrong, including Gulati, Klinsman, Arena. We've got talent level in the system to the effect that our results this qualifying period is within the range of expectation. It was randomly on the low end, but not outside of random expectation.
    I disagree. Yes we are in a trough of what has been a cyclical up and down (instead of constant upward progress) since we came back to the world cup in 1990. But not at least making it to the play-in spot in this region is well below what we should expect. When you add in how we got bounced it is worse. By most measures the loss to T&T is the worst in the history of US Soccer.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...s-mens-soccer/

    Looking only at World Cup matches and qualifiers, it was the worst loss in USMNT’s history based on the Elo rating system. Going into the game, Elo gave the U.S. an 83 percent chance of beating Trinidad and Tobago, making the Americans huge favorites even after accounting for the fact that they were playing on the road. Going back to 1885, the American men had never lost a match at that level when they had such a high probability of winning. And it came with all the chips on the table. You cannot blame U.S. soccer fans for being a little woozy this morning.

  2. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    I disagree. Yes we are in a trough of what has been a cyclical up and down (instead of constant upward progress) since we came back to the world cup in 1990. But not at least making it to the play-in spot in this region is well below what we should expect. When you add in how we got bounced it is worse. By most measures the loss to T&T is the worst in the history of US Soccer.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...s-mens-soccer/
    But do you think we have better talent? Or are you saying the bosses are to blame for not developing talent? What are they not doing right? I agree we are not doing anything to developer players, but I wouldn't say we have talent in the system that should be expected to do significantly better than how we do.

  3. #213

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    every neighborhood I've ever lived in, the athletes play football, basketball, baseball. you know, the real athletes - the kids whose parents were legit athletes. the kids who play soccer into jr high and high school are the kids whose parents never touched a ball as kids but wanted their kids to play a sport.

    that's why u.s. soccer sucks. youth soccer is made up of nerds and non-athletes. there you all go - mystery solved.

    there are exceptions, of course, but not nearly enough of them.
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  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    every neighborhood I've ever lived in, the athletes play football, basketball, baseball. you know, the real athletes - the kids whose parents were legit athletes. the kids who play soccer into jr high and high school are the kids whose parents never touched a ball as kids but wanted their kids to play a sport.

    that's why u.s. soccer sucks. youth soccer is made up of nerds and non-athletes. there you all go - mystery solved.

    there are exceptions, of course, but not nearly enough of them.
    Yep. But we already knew that. Look at you bringing new insights to the soccer thread!

    I've got one for the Jazz thread: if Salt Lake was a major city on the west coast and wasn't full of mormons, we'd be able to attract and keep better talent in the free agency market. *hot take*
    Last edited by falafel; 10-13-2017 at 11:40 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    But do you think we have better talent? Or are you saying the bosses are to blame for not developing talent? What are they not doing right? I agree we are not doing anything to developer players, but I wouldn't say we have talent in the system that should be expected to do significantly better than how we do.
    I do think we should have better talent in the system being we are a nation of 300 million people that produces the best athletes in the world. And yes that is an ongoing systemic failure that can't be laid at the feet of only Gulati. But I am saying that not qualifying out of CONCACAF (even given our level of talent), and getting bounced the way we did is so inexcusable that this is one of those times when heads should roll just because. When there is a mistake this bad, the buck stops at the top even if it isn't explicitly his/her fault.

    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    every neighborhood I've ever lived in, the athletes play football, basketball, baseball. you know, the real athletes - the kids whose parents were legit athletes. the kids who play soccer into jr high and high school are the kids whose parents never touched a ball as kids but wanted their kids to play a sport.

    that's why u.s. soccer sucks. youth soccer is made up of nerds and non-athletes. there you all go - mystery solved.

    there are exceptions, of course, but not nearly enough of them.
    That may be true in the Mountain time zone and was certainly true in Omaha when I grew up. But that is not what I see at all in NYC. Pickups games at every park are full of young talented kids. High school soccer is a big deal and the players are very very good. The best players are usually kids of immigrants but why aren't we identifying these kids and getting them in the pipeline? I suppose this is what Jay has been saying all along about the club system.

  6. #216

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    There's more randomness in soccer than any other sport. And though over a 10 game qualification, that should get sorted out, and we're in an easy group, I still find it hard to get too upset over the management of the team. If you look at standings in other qualifying groups, there's all kind of funky results. I think a deeper problem is to look at why we can't develop players. But like I've said before, I think we're going about that all wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    There's more randomness in soccer than any other sport. And though over a 10 game qualification, that should get sorted out, and we're in an easy group, I still find it hard to get too upset over the management of the team. If you look at standings in other qualifying groups, there's all kind of funky results. I think a deeper problem is to look at why we can't develop players. But like I've said before, I think we're going about that all wrong.
    There is a bit of randomness if it is down to one game but in the qualification rounds, not so much.

    I disagree with people saying we don't have enough talent. It may not be properly identified or developed, but we have 42 million people in the US playing soccer, and 4.2 Million registered players. Iceland, a country of 335,000 with two major EPL players, qualified. T&T defeated the US. That is absurd.

    The distribution of enough quality is there. With pay for play, we are promoting and developing our talent correctly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    every neighborhood I've ever lived in, the athletes play football, basketball, baseball. you know, the real athletes - the kids whose parents were legit athletes. the kids who play soccer into jr high and high school are the kids whose parents never touched a ball as kids but wanted their kids to play a sport.

    that's why u.s. soccer sucks. youth soccer is made up of nerds and non-athletes. there you all go - mystery solved.

    there are exceptions, of course, but not nearly enough of them.
    It's been a few years - but when I was a kid playing soccer in Jr. High, our best player played the first half of the season with us. Until football started. Then we might seem him from time to time at games when it didn't conflict with his football games. Other than that, he was done.

    There's a lot of kids I know who play soccer to keep in shape for their primary sport - football or basketball.

    That aside - I do believe that the number of kids who have soccer as their first love is increasing. I think the US is making progress, but I also think it's always going to be a 2 steps forward, 1 step backward kind of deal.

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    We may be doing something right with the youth teams. U-17 men demolished Paraguay 5-0 to get to the WC quarterfinals. Weah had a hat trick. I need to find their next game to watch it. Maybe it will cheer me up a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    We may be doing something right with the youth teams. U-17 men demolished Paraguay 5-0 to get to the WC quarterfinals. Weah had a hat trick. I need to find their next game to watch it. Maybe it will cheer me up a bit.
    How do you find where to watch these games? I don't know enough about these teams to know if other nations have their best players at U-20 and U-23 already on their national teams or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    It's been a few years - but when I was a kid playing soccer in Jr. High, our best player played the first half of the season with us. Until football started. Then we might seem him from time to time at games when it didn't conflict with his football games. Other than that, he was done.

    There's a lot of kids I know who play soccer to keep in shape for their primary sport - football or basketball.

    That aside - I do believe that the number of kids who have soccer as their first love is increasing. I think the US is making progress, but I also think it's always going to be a 2 steps forward, 1 step backward kind of deal.
    I think the time where kids could play 2 or 3 sports through high school is largely over. Everyone is so specialized and kids train all year long for one sport. There's almost zero time to play more than one sport competitively. I'm not sure if that helps or hurts soccer. It obviously helps when kids decide that soccer is their no. 1 sport, but you'll also lose those kids who would have played through middle school and high school as long as they didn't have to give up their other sports.
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    Where aren’t HS kids playing more than one sport?
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    Where aren’t HS kids playing more than one sport?
    Not at my kids HS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hostile View Post
    Not at my kids HS.
    Or mine, or any of the football recruits I see signed every year.

    Wait maybe I misread your post. Are kids at your HS only playing one sport? I’m not a smart person so reading is hard sometimes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    Or mine, or any of the football recruits I see signed every year.

    Wait maybe I misread your post. Are kids at your HS only playing one sport? I’m not a smart person so reading is hard sometimes.
    I love HFN's self-deprecation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    How do you find where to watch these games? I don't know enough about these teams to know if other nations have their best players at U-20 and U-23 already on their national teams or not.
    Quarterfinal vs. England Saturday 10:20am EDT. FS2 and Telemundo. Tim Weah is going to be a star. The prospect of him playing with Pulisic brightens my mood a bit. I expect him to be playing for the senior team by the time qualifying starts again.

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    Donovan is considering running against Gulati.

  18. #228
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    Hope Solo announces her candidacy.
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    It's a real bummer the US team didn't make this World Cup. A huge opportunity to grow the popularity of the sport. But I saw a little but of the USMNT game yesterday (3-0 win against Bolivia) and it's kind of exciting the young talent we have. Pulisic is a known entity. But then we have three other teenagers that are making international waves: McKennie, Sargent, and Weah with Shalke, Bremen, and PSG. All three of those guys started the game yesterday and are expected to start making impact with their clubs in Europe, though Weah and Sargent could end up going out on loan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    It's a real bummer the US team didn't make this World Cup. A huge opportunity to grow the popularity of the sport. But I saw a little but of the USMNT game yesterday (3-0 win against Bolivia) and it's kind of exciting the young talent we have. Pulisic is a known entity. But then we have three other teenagers that are making international waves: McKennie, Sargent, and Weah with Shalke, Bremen, and PSG. All three of those guys started the game yesterday and are expected to start making impact with their clubs in Europe, though Weah and Sargent could end up going out on loan.
    Yeah I still believe the future is bright but not being in the finals is as bad of a sports gut punch as I have ever experienced. It is still upsetting to me and I wont be completely over it until qualifying starts again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    It's a real bummer the US team didn't make this World Cup. A huge opportunity to grow the popularity of the sport. But I saw a little but of the USMNT game yesterday (3-0 win against Bolivia) and it's kind of exciting the young talent we have. Pulisic is a known entity. But then we have three other teenagers that are making international waves: McKennie, Sargent, and Weah with Shalke, Bremen, and PSG. All three of those guys started the game yesterday and are expected to start making impact with their clubs in Europe, though Weah and Sargent could end up going out on loan.
    Pulisic only gets so many WC opportunities and the US blew one of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowcat View Post
    Pulisic only gets so many WC opportunities and the US blew one of them.
    It is a travesty to lose as they did, bu this team was in disarray. There is some good up and coming talent, and a 23 year old Pulisic should be hungry and ready to command the stage.

    I don't believe Russia will be that big a stage because of way Russia will run the WC. WC in Brazil makes sense. WC in Russia does not.
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    Ha, up 1-nil at half in a friendly with France right before Les Bleus head for Russia.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

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    Crud. Youngsters losing composure and France brings it even. Lots of France pressure on goal.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

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    Well, the young guys held on for the tie. Not bad and good eperience for our youngsters.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    Well, the young guys held on for the tie. Not bad and good eperience for our youngsters.
    I can't believe we didn't lose by 5+ when looking at those two lineups. Well done usa

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveCoug View Post
    I can't believe we didn't lose by 5+ when looking at those two lineups. Well done usa
    Not a bad a result. Hadn't heard of all but 1-2 of our USA footballers.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

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    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    Not a bad a result. Hadn't heard of all but 1-2 of our USA footballers.
    Outshot 18-2. Good defending, not much offense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Outshot 18-2. Good defending, not much offense.
    For sure. It was like that before the USA went up, but with a few runs. But after we scored, we went into turtle mode.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    For sure. It was like that before the USA went up, but with a few runs. But after we scored, we went into turtle mode.
    Better to salvage a tie than to lose trying to extend the plays.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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