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Thread: Rick Santorum (please, don't Google his last name) is the funniest not-Romney yet

  1. #331
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERCougar View Post
    T about

    Individuals are not prohibited from feeling uncomfortable with a candidates race either.

    I don't disagree with your point about mormons, but this isn't a very compelling argument.
    I'm not making an argument, I'm trying to explain why the entire issue isnt compelling. There is no story to be found in evangelics not wanting to vote for Mormons. The entire issue is uninteresting which is why nobody is making a smoking gun dossier to run a front page spread in the Washington Post.
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  2. #332
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    RP has great production quality. His campaign ads always hit the mark.
    Once Santorum is out Romney will be next.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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  3. #333
    Dolphins Rape Hipsters oxcoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post

    This reminds me of when you tried to talk about venture capital a month or so ago.
    that was a conv abt private equity. Until now I thought you knew the difference. (yes, yes, it was sparked by Perry's "vulture capital" foray but it was abt Romney's career in PE).


    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    Now you want to talk about legal discrimination.
    I do? An action can be "discriminatory" or "prejudicial" on a social / cultural level w/o falling under the legal definition.
    Ute-ī sunt fīmī differtī

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  4. #334
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxcoug View Post

    I do? An action can be "discriminatory" or "prejudicial" on a social / cultural level w/o falling under the legal definition.
    so you are proposing that this alleged conspiracy doesn't rise to the legal definition of discrimination, yet you wonder why major media outlets haven't put together an exposé on the matter?

    Why doesn't FORA cover this story?
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  5. #335

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    You aren't debating with me. Apparently all the newspaper outlets agree with me so there isn't much debate.

    Good luck putting together your dossier.
    Have you been taking lessons from SU?
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  6. #336

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    I'm not making an argument, I'm trying to explain why the entire issue isnt compelling. There is no story to be found in evangelics not wanting to vote for Mormons. The entire issue is uninteresting which is why nobody is making a smoking gun dossier to run a front page spread in the Washington Post.
    I guess I give the American public enough credit that I think it would be compelling to see a coordinated movement of religious bigotry. Romney should have to answer for a lot of things tied to his religion--sexism, answering to a prophet, anti-intellectualism/anti-science bias, etc--but not how he views God. I suspect that this isn't the basis of the evangelical attack, chiefly because their ground is even shakier on these points. They hate him because he's Mormon. It's the definition of religious bigotry (and yes, Mormons are guilty of it too).
    At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
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  7. #337
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERCougar View Post
    I guess I give the American public enough credit that I think it would be compelling to see a coordinated movement of religious bigotry. Romney should have to answer for a lot of things tied to his religion--sexism, answering to a prophet, anti-intellectualism/anti-science bias, etc--but not how he views God. I suspect that this isn't the basis of the evangelical attack, chiefly because their ground is even shakier on these points. They hate him because he's Mormon. It's the definition of religious bigotry (and yes, Mormons are guilty of it too).
    I think we are speaking past each other. I don't think i disagree with your post. My question remains the same....namely, where is the story? Why is it newsworthy to say that evangelicals don't like Mos and Mos are equally exclusionary?

    Actually, one minor issue with your post. You want to give credit to the American public yet it is the same American public that is rejecting Romney. How much of Romney's troubles will be pinned on evangelicals? He is losing Michigan. This has become a national trend. As I suggested before, maybe Mitt isn't likable. That is also an important factor that shouldn't be ignored and should be explored prior to general accusations of discrimination.

    Anyhow, my initial response was to the shock that Mormons had not put together a dossier of hate exposing evangelical bigotry towards Mormons. I still don't see the story there. And as you indicate, it would open up a massive can of worms for Romney, given that Mos are guilty of depreciating the religious beliefs of others.
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  8. #338
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    I'm not voting for Santorum because I don't think he's a Christian....at least in the way I define the term.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  9. #339

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    I think we are speaking past each other. I don't think i disagree with your post. My question remains the same....namely, where is the story? Why is it newsworthy to say that evangelicals don't like Mos and Mos are equally exclusionary?

    Actually, one minor issue with your post. You want to give credit to the American public yet it is the same American public that is rejecting Romney. How much of Romney's troubles will be pinned on evangelicals? He is losing Michigan. This has become a national trend. As I suggested before, maybe Mitt isn't likable. That is also an important factor that shouldn't be ignored and should be explored prior to general accusations of discrimination.

    Anyhow, my initial response was to the shock that Mormons had not put together a dossier of hate exposing evangelical bigotry towards Mormons. I still don't see the story there. And as you indicate, it would open up a massive can of worms for Romney, given that Mos are guilty of depreciating the religious beliefs of others.
    You initially made two points: 1) that Americans aren't prohibited from voting based on religious grounds and 2) Americans apparently aren't "down with Mormonism". Well, for years, Americans weren't down with black/Jewish/Catholic people and nothing prohibited them from voting based on this bigotry, but does that make the point any less compelling? Does the fact that this was only sporadically mentioned by a few mean that they should just have just shut up about it already?

    Yes, Romney may just not be likable, but that's also beside the point. Viking and ox think it would be interesting to see if there is another factor at play. If there isn't, great--no bigotry. If there is, it should be pointed out. The average primary voter is looking for a guy that can beat Obama. They assume that when Santorum gains momentum, it's for a legitimate reason, and not due to a coordinated bigotry campaign that's not going to play outside of a relatively smaller circle of evangelical voters in the general election.

    No, I don't think Romney should be behind this exposition, nor do I think ox or viking suggested as much. Let someone else do it. And let someone else expose the Mormons for Romney, as far as it exists. Of course, I haven't heard calls over the pulpit to vote for Romney--have you? It probably exists on some level, but now we're definitely getting into the territory of "not very compelling".
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  10. #340

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    I'm not voting for Santorum because I don't think he's a Christian....at least in the way I define the term.
    Yup. I am not voting for Santorum because I think his social conservative religious beliefs are crazy.

  11. #341
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERCougar View Post
    You initially made two points: 1) that Americans aren't prohibited from voting based on religious grounds and 2) Americans apparently aren't "down with Mormonism". Well, for years, Americans weren't down with black/Jewish/Catholic people and nothing prohibited them from voting based on this bigotry, but does that make the point any less compelling? Does the fact that this was only sporadically mentioned by a few mean that they should just have just shut up about it already?

    Yes, Romney may just not be likable, but that's also beside the point. Viking and ox think it would be interesting to see if there is another factor at play. If there isn't, great--no bigotry. If there is, it should be pointed out. The average primary voter is looking for a guy that can beat Obama. They assume that when Santorum gains momentum, it's for a legitimate reason, and not due to a coordinated bigotry campaign that's not going to play outside of a relatively smaller circle of evangelical voters in the general election.

    No, I don't think Romney should be behind this exposition, nor do I think ox or viking suggested as much. Let someone else do it. And let someone else expose the Mormons for Romney, as far as it exists. Of course, I haven't heard calls over the pulpit to vote for Romney--have you? It probably exists on some level, but now we're definitely getting into the territory of "not very compelling".
    Ive only made one point...that this story isn't interesting enough to merit an exposé. The factors I gave were in support of my point. If people want to be shocked that this issue hasn't been exposed in the national media, by all means, go ahead and be shocked. I'm thinking that the national media doesn't find it very compelling, either, but maybe I'm off and we can expect to see a big WashPo spread on evangelicals not liking Mormons. I doubt it, personally.

    I haven't heard the Church endorse Romney but of course I've heard pro Romney/anti democratic sentiment at Church. But as you stated, comments made at Chuurch aren't very compelling. Which is why comments made by evangelical pastors at Church are not being picked up by the national media, either. If the worldwide leadership of the Evangelical movement were to publicly denounce Romney, I bet that would get picked up by the national media, though.
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  12. #342

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    Ive only made one point...that this story isn't interesting enough to merit an exposé. The factors I gave were in support of my point. If people want to be shocked that this issue hasn't been exposed in the national media, by all means, go ahead and be shocked. I'm thinking that the national media doesn't find it very compelling, either, but maybe I'm off and we can expect to see a big WashPo spread on evangelicals not liking Mormons. I doubt it, personally.

    I haven't heard the Church endorse Romney but of course I've heard pro Romney/anti democratic sentiment at Church. But as you stated, comments made at Chuurch aren't very compelling. Which is why comments made by evangelical pastors at Church are not being picked up by the national media, either. If the worldwide leadership of the Evangelical movement were to publicly denounce Romney, I bet that would get picked up by the national media, though.
    Neither of your points (Americans not being down with Mormonism and the fact that they can vote based on whatever they want) have anything to do with how interesting the story may be. Nor does national interest level have much to do with whether a point of ethics should be made.

    I never said comments made at church aren't very compelling; on the contrary, I said comments made over the pulpit would actually be much more interesting. But I'm not hearing these--I've heard a few people say they like Romney, but in every case, they've actually been pretty careful to say that it's just their opinion and I've never heard them from a bishop/SP/GA (and I've actually heard just as much pro-Paul sentiment). Maybe we're just a little more progressive in these parts. Like I said, I don't doubt a pro-Romney bias exists, but there's a substantial difference between informal comments by members and formal comments over the pulpit from the local leaders.

    I'm glad we agree that a coordinated anti-Mormon movement would be interesting, and would be picked up by the national media.
    At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
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  13. #343
    The Dude Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viking View Post
    I'm SHOCKED that a group of LDS techies hasn't put together a dossier on the coordinated evangelical effort to discredit Romney. I was able to code a few simple searches that yielded some interesting stuff from blogs, message boards, etc. This would be front page NYT/WaPo news if someone formalized it...It's really disappointing to see the role of discrimination take such a prominent part of this election. Romney's Mormonism is singled out over and over again by pastors as being the reason why to back Santorum.

    I'm going to ask my atheist brother to take a look at this but sheesh, you good mormons are really going to rely on two former members to expose one of the ugliest cases of coordinated discrimination in US politics?
    lol.

    So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

  14. #344
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERCougar View Post
    Neither of your points (Americans not being down with Mormonism and the fact that they can vote based on whatever they want) have anything to do with how interesting the story may be. Nor does national interest level have much to do with whether a point of ethics should be made.
    Well, then good luck contributing your part to the Smoking Gun dossier that makes an ethical point. I look forward to learning about the wire taps and message board conspiracies you unearth with Viking.

    I will stand off on the sidelines with the editors of WashPo, NYt, WSJ, et al and consider this story a non issue unworthy of much coverage, let alone an exposé.

    Please keep us informed of your progress!
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  15. #345

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    Well, then good luck contributing your part to the Smoking Gun dossier that makes an ethical point. I look forward to learning about the wire taps and message board conspiracies you unearth with Viking.

    I will stand off on the sidelines with the editors of WashPo, NYt, WSJ, et al and consider this story a non issue unworthy of much coverage, let alone an exposé.

    Please keep us informed of your progress!
    At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
    -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

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  17. #347
    Basketball Diplomat San Juan Sun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    It must be frustrating when your candidate runs as a social/religious conservative, and is suddenly getting vetted.

    The truth is, Mormonism is old news. Everyone knows Mitt is a Mormon, and many somewhat weird doctrines were openly discussed in the 2007 campaign (see Huckabee, Mike).
    "Sure, I fought. I had to fight all my life just to survive. They were all against me. Tried every dirty trick to cut me down, but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch."

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  18. #348
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    It's not off-limits, Mitt just doesn't care to discuss it. It's not the central theme of his campaign, unlike Santorum.

    My uneasiness for Santorum comes from his religious speak. He speaks as if God is directing him to do certain things politically, which brings to my mind the monarchical rule of French kings. It's as if he thinks God is the one from whom the president gets his direction and power, when in fact the American form of government is quite clear that "The People" are the ones that give the president his power. The president is not elected by God and doesn't rule in accordance with God's principles, he does it in accordance with the people.

    I'm fine with a deeply religious person being president, but I like Romney's and Obama's handling of religion by keeping it in the background while other, more important matters for a president, are kept in the forefront.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  19. #349
    Resident Science Cop woot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    This is something we all either already knew or could have assumed, but I think it's important, in that it demonstrates that when he says that he wouldn't try to legislate his personal views, he doesn't mean it. Trying to push a bill that would have required teaching religion in science class is about as pernicious as it gets. It's not a stretch to assume that he would also work to ban birth control, abortion, and sodomy (because, again, conservative men only think about dudes when they think about gay sex; odd, that).

  20. #350

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    [YOUTUBE]woc66jvkGHw[/YOUTUBE]

  21. #351

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    [YOUTUBE]woc66jvkGHw[/YOUTUBE]
    lol

  22. #352

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    God seems to have told a lot of people to run for president. It worked out well for Bauchman, Cain and Perry. Can't wait to see how it works out for Santorum.

    http://p.washingtontimes.com/blog/in...rge-gods-will/

  23. #353
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJF View Post
    God seems to have told a lot of people to run for president. It worked out well for Bauchman, Cain and Perry. Can't wait to see how it works out for Santorum.

    http://p.washingtontimes.com/blog/in...rge-gods-will/
    And Joseph Smith!
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  24. #354

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    And Joseph Smith!
    I don't care much for Santorum, but I hope his campaign ends better than the Joseph Smith campaign.

  25. #355
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJF View Post
    God seems to have told a lot of people to run for president. It worked out well for Bauchman, Cain and Perry. Can't wait to see how it works out for Santorum.

    http://p.washingtontimes.com/blog/in...rge-gods-will/
    "The 'want' is a mission to make the culture a better culture, more pleasing to God," Mrs. Santorum said.
    More pleasing to God = elimination of contraceptives

    Sitting with three of their children, the Santorums said the campaign has been educational for the children, and said they've thrived on the encouragement of the voters they've met along the way.
    Of course it's been educational, they were home schooled. This is probably the first time they've met people that think differently than them.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  26. #356

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    Why is Ron Paul a dick to Rick? Because he doesn't like him.

  27. #357
    Royal Rooter Green Monstah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    And Joseph Smith!
    I remember being embarrassed for JS when I read a quote about "how popular" he would be on the east coast (can't find the quote right now).

    Santorum shouldn't cry foul over being grilled on religion; he's pandered to the religious right and they are the sole reason he still has an active campaign.
    "That John Denver is full of [it] man"

  28. #358
    Royal Rooter Green Monstah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post

    Of course it's been educational, they were home schooled. This is probably the first time they've met talked to people that think differently than them other than their mommy.
    FIFY. (J/K Nikuman)
    "That John Denver is full of [it] man"

  29. #359
    Liberal Feminazi Pheidippides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Monstah View Post
    FIFY. (J/K Nikuman)
    You can drop the super secret text. I'm pretty much in agreement here.
    Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.

  30. #360

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Monstah View Post
    I remember being embarrassed for JS when I read a quote about "how popular" he would be on the east coast (can't find the quote right now).

    Santorum shouldn't cry foul over being grilled on religion; he's pandered to the religious right and they are the sole reason he still has an active campaign.
    He's like the BYU sports of presidential candidates.

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