Marathon Training Thread

[bluegoose]

Sorry I missed your question during the last post, parrot head.

5 weeks before marathon date we did a big downhill training run which really closely resembled the grade of the marathon course. We started on the slopes of Mount Shasta up at the trailhead that most climbers take on their way up the mountain. From there it was a 14 mile descent down the mountain and through the town of Mount Shasta, followed by 3 miles of flat to rolling hills terrain to the campground where we had planned to finish. Ended up with a net loss of about 3,500 feet.

The first 11 miles averaged about 6-7% downgrade, almost identical to the Mount Hood course. It leveled off a little from there, but not by much for the next few miles. The first 10 miles of the run went by so quickly with minimal effort, it was the most enjoyable 10 miles I think I've ever run. However, I started to feel something going on with one of my toe nails at this time, which got progressively worse as the run continued. I thought I was going to lose a toenail, but it turned out just be a long nail that was digging into the adjacent toe. I was also concerned about possible shin splint issues, given the steep downgrade, but this turned out to be a complete non-issue.

By the time we hit the flat section at mile 14 or 15 my quads were pretty shredded. Still felt pretty decent on the downhills, but it took a ton of effort to keep moving forward on the flats and uphills. And I could hardly get up from a low chair for about 3 days after. And just walking was so incredibly painful in both the quads and calves.

Marathon is this Saturday. I didn't have a good training cycle at all. I strained my hamstring while reffing a church bball tournament just as my 18 week program was scheduled to begin. So i ended up getting the miles in, but wasn't able to do any speed work whatsoever. Not a single interval workout or tempo run; just lots of slow miles.

I'm confident I'll finish this weekend, but it's not gonna be pretty. I started out hoping for a good PR, but now I'm sure I'll be lucky to break 4 hours. Oh well. I did it mainly to keep my buddy company on his long weekend runs. He is hoping for a sub 3:15 BQ time, which I'm certain he'll get.

[BigPiney]

Good luck!

I am still thinking about doing Mt Charleston next year. I ran a 1 mile yesterday, walked 0.5 and then ran 0.5. Trying to come back slowly from the broken foot, so this is what week 2 has in store.

My wife in prep for the downhill races, does a big descent every 3-4 weeks and not always on the long run. The one she did last week was worse than normal and she was walking funny much like you were. That is painful stuff.

[Parrot Head]

It's rather frustrating when you semi-injure yourself on Week 1, Day 4 of a training plan. I was trying to a do a progression run and I'm just not good at moderating my speed if my legs aren't tired. I started out slowly and just pounded or stomped more than kept a decent stride. My left knee ached and I continued to run on it for a few days. Now I've just finished what should have been Week 3, but I don't have much mileage to show for it. The original sharp pain behind the kneecap has gone, but my knee will feel like it tightly wrapped in a towel, tense, while I run, or I'll get soreness in the other parts of the leg that have overcompensated -- calf, ankle. On the bright side, I've gotten on the bike more and am enjoying that more than I have in the past 2 years since PAC's "incident."

I think I'm finally going to take a few days off from running (more than just 2) in hopes of it improving. The good thing is that I have a good base of running this year (1k miles already) and the race isn't until December, so hopefully I'll get back on track soon.

[bluegoose]

I did the Big Bear Marathon this weekend. It started up near Big Bear Lake and came down the canyon, finishing in Redlands. It was a gorgeous course for the first 23 or 24 miles, with the last few miles going through the city streets. Heavily wooded up top, opening up into canyon views before leveling out in the valley.

There were some rolling hills for the first 8 miles. There a long, slow grinder at mile 2-3, which wasn't too steep, but definitely slowed down the pace for a bit. Then there were a few short, slightly steeper pitches between 6-8 miles. Once we hit mile 9 it was all downhill from there. The first 8 miles had a net elevation loss of about 1,000 feet, while the last 17 miles lost over 4,000 feet.

The grades weren't too steep and never caused me to feel like I was running out of control. I had done 2 big downhill runs in training, and this one was overall more tame than them. But it definitely sped up the pace. We were talking to one of the race directors at the expo who told us we should expect our times to be 1-1.5 minutes per mile faster than on a flat. He was totally full of crap, but I would say that most people can probably expect 20-30 seconds faster on this course. This assumes that the legs hold up well and don't cramp up on you during the last 6 miles.

I felt pretty well for most of the day. My original goal was to just go sub-4 hours, as I didn't have a great training cycle. Once I hit about mile 12 I was already about 5 minutes ahead of schedule for a 4:00 and I started to entertain the idea of a PR at sub-3:52. By mile 22 I was about 8 minutes ahead of 4:00 pace and thought it a long shot that I'd be able to finish with sub-8:50 miles. Calves started to really fatigue and tighten up at mile 23 and I knew I wasn't going to PR, so I just tried to enjoy the last few miles. And I did, as I felt really pretty good all the way to the finish. 3:56:17. My training buddy bested his previous PR by 12 minutes, finishing with a BQ time of 3:07.

Revel puts on a great race. They were very organized and efficient, with tons of staff support at the expo and at the starting line. Rest stops were every 2 miles on the dot and were well supported. Lots of cheering going on from the volunteers that manned the stations.

I knew it was coming and it hit me hard this morning. Feels like I have glass shards in my calves with every step today. Quads are pretty sore as well, but nothing compared to the calves.

Good race. Would totally do another Revel race in the future.

[Joe Public]

Nice report, BG. That sounds like one I'll have to add to my short list, especially with it being local to me.

[PaloAltoCougar]

bg, I reviewed with interest your run on Strava. I'm sure the descent helps times a little, but I'm curious how much that gain is offset by the damage it's doing to knees/feet/ankles given the extra stress as one pounds downhill. Very nice run.

[bluegoose]

bg, I reviewed with interest your run on Strava. I'm sure the descent helps times a little, but I'm curious how much that gain is offset by the damage it's doing to knees/feet/ankles given the extra stress as one pounds downhill. Very nice run.

The muscle damage is significant. I’ve seen people hobble at the end of every marathon that I’ve done. But I saw a bunch of people with jelly legs from mile 23 on. It seemed to have hit them hard when the course flattened out from the steep grades shortly after mile 21. Several were walking the last couple of miles of the course with each arm draped over the shoulder of a family member or friend that came to help out.

With how I felt during my last marathon in salt lake 9 years ago I assumed I would cramp up and was planning on some walking the last few miles. I was pleasantly surprised when things held together fairly well.


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[Omaha 680]

We finally bit the bullet and signed up for the Ogden Marathon in May. I am 41 and the longest race I have ever done is 10k. The longest my wife has done is a half once. I have a long ways to go and probably about 30 pounds to drop but I am committed. I have been doing the 11-7 intermittent fasting for about three weeks now and it seems to be helping (although I havent stepped on a scale). I have been able to eliminate snacking between meals for the most part so the next big step is to regulate the quality of the meals I have.

On the actual training front, after not running for any significant period for probably the last 6 years, I started slowly with 2 miles a day three weeks ago. I'm on 2.5 miles today. My plan is to bump up to 3 just after Thanksgiving and to 4 by the end of the year. I figure if I can do that 6 days a week I'll be ready to start an actual marathon training program after Jan 1. The good news is I'm running in the early morning consistently for the first time in my life and it is pretty great. A couple more weeks and I think the temptation to sleep in will be much less.

Also, running when you are out of shape is awful.

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[smokymountainrain]

intermittent fasting ftw!

[Copelius]

We finally bit the bullet and signed up for the Ogden Marathon in May. I am 41 and the longest race I have ever done is 10k. The longest my wife has done is a half once. I have a long ways to go and probably about 30 pounds to drop but I am committed. I have been doing the 11-7 intermittent fasting for about three weeks now and it seems to be helping (although I havent stepped on a scale). I have been able to eliminate snacking between meals for the most part so the next big step is to regulate the quality of the meals I have.

On the actual training front, after not running for any significant period for probably the last 6 years, I started slowly with 2 miles a day three weeks ago. I'm on 2.5 miles today. My plan is to bump up to 3 just after Thanksgiving and to 4 by the end of the year. I figure if I can do that 6 days a week I'll be ready to start an actual marathon training program after Jan 1. The good news is I'm running in the early morning consistently for the first time in my life and it is pretty great. A couple more weeks and I think the temptation to sleep in will be much less.

Also, running when you are out of shape is awful.

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Good Luck. Maybe someday I will find some motivation as well.

[Eddie]

We finally bit the bullet and signed up for the Ogden Marathon in May. I am 41 and the longest race I have ever done is 10k. The longest my wife has done is a half once. I have a long ways to go and probably about 30 pounds to drop but I am committed. I have been doing the 11-7 intermittent fasting for about three weeks now and it seems to be helping (although I havent stepped on a scale). I have been able to eliminate snacking between meals for the most part so the next big step is to regulate the quality of the meals I have.

On the actual training front, after not running for any significant period for probably the last 6 years, I started slowly with 2 miles a day three weeks ago. I'm on 2.5 miles today. My plan is to bump up to 3 just after Thanksgiving and to 4 by the end of the year. I figure if I can do that 6 days a week I'll be ready to start an actual marathon training program after Jan 1. The good news is I'm running in the early morning consistently for the first time in my life and it is pretty great. A couple more weeks and I think the temptation to sleep in will be much less.

Also, running when you are out of shape is awful.

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As my Brother in Law once told me - NO ONE likes to run for the first 3 miles. No one.

Keep it up - you'll do great. Ogden is a fun marathon to run. If I had any advice it would be this -

1 - in your running, include some down hill portions. Lots of down hill in Ogden. I remember my thighs just being done at the end the first time I ran it.

2 - The hill around mile 13-14 is a GREAT place to walk for about 3/4 of a mile and eat a granola bar or something. Seriously. Running up that hill was a mistake I only made once. It's not huge or overly steep - but not worth the energy burn to run it if you're just looking to finish happy.

3 - when they bus you to the start, you'll basically be in a huge pasture waiting for the race to start. The grass is wet. It's kind of cold. Unless you want to stand for an hour +, take something to sit on. My second year I took one of those small/thin closed cell foam camping mats to sit on with a buddy. I also took a cheap duffle instead of the silly little runner bag they give you so I could put my mat, jacket, jogging pants, etc in it to turn in for them to carry down to the finish for me. Might as well be comfortable before you start to run.

Good luck!

[BigPiney]

intermittent fasting ftw!

I fast every night for almost 8 hours. I call it sleeping. Seems to work well for me. I haven't weighed myself in about 6 months, but I was on a trip this week so I weighed myself in the hotel gym. Still at my high school/ college weight. I wouldn't mind losing 3 pounds of fat and adding about 6 of muscle.

[smokymountainrain]

I fast every night for almost 8 hours. I call it sleeping. Seems to work well for me. I haven't weighed myself in about 6 months, but I was on a trip this week so I weighed myself in the hotel gym. Still at my high school/ college weight. I wouldn't mind losing 3 pounds of fat and adding about 6 of muscle.

super mean post considering you know what a fat ass i am.

[bluegoose]

Good luck Omaha. I've heard Ogden is a great race. I wasn't ready by May of this year, otherwise that would have been one of my top choices for a spring or summer race.

Eddie gives good advice. Make sure to incorporate some downhill miles into your program. In getting ready for Big Bear we did three big downhill runs. All three were in the 15-18 mile range and included a 3,000+ elevation loss. Those three long runs were more valuable to me than any other training run that I did. It was extremely good for training the quads and calves. But just as importantly it helped me psychologically seeing a training run profile that was similar to the race day profile.

[Omaha 680]

Thank you for the advice, Eddie and BG. It is very helpful. I continue to plod along. Last night I went over 3 miles for the first time and felt pretty good. But that may be because I'm in KC for Thanksgiving. I dont find a huge difference in difficulty exercising at altitude in Utah vs. the midwest when I am an shape. But when I am out of shape I can't breathe in Utah.

I think I'm down about 5 pounds. 20 to go.

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