The Atheism Thread

[DrumNFeather]

I feel a "professor has no brain" story coming...

[SoonerCoug]

Because I have real, practical experience with God.

I can't prove to others that he exists, and I wouldn't even try. But I know what I have experienced and what it means.

Tell us what you have experienced. I don't doubt the sincerity of your belief. I don't want to minimize the personal meaning of your experiences. At the same time, I don't understand why you would claim knowledge based on feelings and perceptions that aren't really testable evidence.

If you had been born in ancient Greece, you would be talking about Zeus. If you had been born in India, you'd be talking about a Hindu God. If you had been born in West Africa, you'd be talking about Ju-Ju up on the mountain.

[SeattleUte]

Because it's not testable. No one can have knowledge of something that can't be tested or demonstrated. Saying you know that God exists is like saying you know there is a ghost in your attic.

No, it's not quite like that. It's like this. I was once reading a book to my kids about the big bang. As the book was recounting the original quick progression it said that within some fraction of a second the universe was the size of a basketball. My youngest son (4 at the time) said, "what was outside of it?" My wife, who was listening (and is not an atheist), said "nothingness". I said, "What she means is that it can't be tested, it can't be felt, observed, measured, seen, or tasted. It is inaccessible to any part of the universe. We can't ever discover it because it's outside of our material world. So we say nothingness, because it's unknowable to humans as scientists define what is knowable. If anyone tells you they 'know' what's outside of this they really can't KNOW it."

As the book had noted, all the elements of each of our own personal creations were in the universe from the time it was dust speck sized; we are the universe; to scientists the material world of which we're an integrated part defines the limit of what is knowable. The rest is nothingness.

As an aside, I've felt that the notion that God resides on a distant planet is a quaint, Nineteenth century notion that wasn't terribly imaginative. Lucretius' imagination was far more extensive than Joseph Smith's, and more prophetic.

[il Padrino Ute]

Tell us what you have experienced. I don't doubt the sincerity of your belief. I don't want to minimize the personal meaning of your experiences. At the same time, I don't understand why you would claim knowledge based on feelings and perceptions that aren't really testable evidence.

If you had been born in ancient Greece, you would be talking about Zeus. If you had been born in India, you'd be talking about a Hindu God. If you had been born in West Africa, you'd be talking about Ju-Ju up on the mountain.

An honest question:

Why do you (or anyone else for that matter) need to have testable evidence in order to accept that he knows God exists? I can't say that I know God exists - I believe he does - but I have no problem if another makes that claim. Just because I don't know something doesn't mean that it isn't possible for another to know it.

[SoonerCoug]

An honest question:

Why do you (or anyone else for that matter) need to have testable evidence in order to accept that he knows God exists? I can't say that I know God exists - I believe he does - but I have no problem if another makes that claim. Just because I don't know something doesn't mean that it isn't possible for another to know it.

It's not knowledge if it can't be demonstrated or tested in a verifiable way. I think you could call it a strong belief, but you can't call it knowledge.

[il Padrino Ute]

It's not knowledge if it can't be demonstrated or tested in a verifiable way. I think you could call it a strong belief, but you can't call it knowledge.

Why is it not knowledge?

Can you convince a blind person that you know the color green exists?

[DapperDan]

Why is it not knowledge?

Can you convince a blind person that you know the color green exists?

Well you'd have to get somewhat detailed with light wavelengths and such, but I don't see it as too big of a challenge.

[wally]

I want everyone to calm down for a minute and ask yourselves this question:

"Can you describe what salt tastes like to someone who has never tasted it?"

Think about it.

I rest my case.

[Tone Loc]

I want everyone to calm down for a minute and ask yourselves this question:

"Can you describe what salt tastes like to someone who has never tasted it?"

Think about it.

I rest my case.

Bingo! End of discussion.

I wish I could get into atheism, so my conscience would leave me alone to participate in the evils, errr other things that seem enjoyable that I have refrained from.

[Flattop]

Tell us what you have experienced. I don't doubt the sincerity of your belief. I don't want to minimize the personal meaning of your experiences. At the same time, I don't understand why you would claim knowledge based on feelings and perceptions that aren't really testable evidence.

In a way it is testable, though likely not in the way that you mean. It is possible to experiment with spiritual things. If certain steps are followed, a certain result is achievable. In some circumstances it can be shared, but in others it cannot be. It likely cannot be shared or demonstrated via the Internet.

[Slim]

Bingo! End of discussion.

I wish I could get into atheism, so my conscience would leave me alone to participate in the evils, errr other things that seem enjoyable that I have refrained from.

Your response belittles and trivializes a sincere struggle that many people have. Yes it is true that I don't experience any guilt drinking an arizona iced tea, but I'd gladly trade that lack of guilt for a more optimistic expectation of what awaits me after this life.

[SoonerCoug]

In a way it is testable, though likely not in the way that you mean. It is possible to experiment with spiritual things. If certain steps are followed, a certain result is achievable. In some circumstances it can be shared, but in others it cannot be. It likely cannot be shared or demonstrated via the Internet.

I get the whole Alma spiel. My point is that this is not true knowledge.

[Jacob]

Your response belittles and trivializes a sincere struggle that many people have. Yes it is true that I don't experience any guilt drinking an arizona iced tea, but I'd gladly trade that lack of guilt for a more optimistic expectation of what awaits me after this life.

Don't worry. Optimism is a mental defect.
http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/22809...th-news-sc.htm

Scientists have discovered that people who are very optimistic about the outcome of events could in fact have a "faulty" brain.

[creekster]

I get the whole Alma spiel. My point is that this is not true knowledge.

how do you know you know something? How do you test that?

[wally]

how do you know you know something? How do you test that?

He speaks of scientific method. Something that attorneys could never understand.