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  • Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post
    What I don't get is why they say not to infer causation, and then make a case for indirect causation.
    I think their reliance on the relational spirituality framework allows for them to infer indirect causation. They spend a good bit of the article discussing the ideas of sanctification in marriage, which isn't really sequential--as they called it. However, given that the framework tells religious people that their marriages will be strengthened if they sanctify them, and since a stronger marriage tacitly implies a healthier and happier sex life, then the indirect causation is built in to the argument. I think that's why the study could pass peer-review. If there were not already an existing framework in religion about sanctification, then I don't know where this would've gone.
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

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    • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
      Well, since they discuss those facts as limitations of the study and their conclusions, I'd disagree. As for your question about the meaning of magnitude, while it might mean that in an etymological sense of meg/magnus- and -tude (abstract noun suffix) = greatness, it's long been a synonym in scientific literature (especially astronomy) for size, and it's a straight synonym when discussing the "magnitude" of an earthquake. Now, you could make an argument that those uses (stars and earthquakes) are chosen due to the immense size/weight/energy of things being measured, but this is talking about effect size of marriage and religiosity on sexual satisfaction in a social science research paper. I'd say that small magnitude in those terms reflects on the magnitude (size) of the phenomenon being studied.
      There was also this:

      [ATTACH]9510[/ATTACH]
      Then it has been edited, and reads much better for it. Is there really such a thing as a small magnitude?

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      • Originally posted by tooblue View Post
        Then it has been edited, and reads much better for it. Is there really such a thing as a small magnitude?
        Yes. Magnitude is a descriptor of size differential. It is often used to infer a "large" size, but that's not required. This can be conflated with the phrase "order of magnitude" which has a very specific meaning. It is exactly ten times greater.

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        • I never knew that, having previously slung around that phrase indiscriminately. I've even said stuff like "multiple orders of magnitude..."

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          • Originally posted by swampfrog View Post
            Yes. Magnitude is a descriptor of size differential. It is often used to infer a "large" size, but that's not required. This can be conflated with the phrase "order of magnitude" which has a very specific meaning. It is exactly ten times greater.
            I've always thought of it as meaning about ten times greater--not exactly.
            "Seriously, is there a bigger high on the whole face of the earth than eating a salad?"--SeattleUte
            "The only Ute to cause even half the nationwide hysteria of Jimmermania was Ted Bundy."--TripletDaddy
            This is a tough, NYC broad, a doctor who deals with bleeding organs, dying people and testicles on a regular basis without crying."--oxcoug
            "I'm not impressed (and I'm even into choreography . . .)"--Donuthole
            "I too was fortunate to leave with my same balls."--byu71

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            • Originally posted by tooblue View Post
              Then it has been edited, and reads much better for it. Is there really such a thing as a small magnitude?
              Yes.

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              • Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post
                I never knew that, having previously slung around that phrase indiscriminately. I've even said stuff like "multiple orders of magnitude..."
                Originally posted by Lost Student View Post
                I've always thought of it as meaning about ten times greater--not exactly.
                As with all language, context matters. Some leeway is always given when measurements aren't precise also (like size of storms). If it's a scientific/engineering text when comparing the values of two measurements, the meaning is usually very specific.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_magnitude

                I think LS's observation is true, the order of magnitude can be used in the sense of "about". But the about is bounded, it's not about 9x or about 11x--it's about 10x. Call it a precise "range".

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                • Originally posted by swampfrog View Post
                  As with all language, context matters. Some leeway is always given when measurements aren't precise also (like size of storms). If it's a scientific/engineering text when comparing the values of two measurements, the meaning is usually very specific.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_magnitude

                  I think LS's observation is true, the order of magnitude can be used in the sense of "about". But the about is bounded, it's not about 9x or about 11x--it's about 10x. Call it a precise "range".
                  In various engineering classes, we would use "order of magnitude" to mean about 9x, 11x, and even less definite approximations. For example, I would say that 3 x 10^7 is an order of magnitude greater than 1.5 x 10^6.

                  Edit: But I agree w/ you that context matters.
                  "Seriously, is there a bigger high on the whole face of the earth than eating a salad?"--SeattleUte
                  "The only Ute to cause even half the nationwide hysteria of Jimmermania was Ted Bundy."--TripletDaddy
                  This is a tough, NYC broad, a doctor who deals with bleeding organs, dying people and testicles on a regular basis without crying."--oxcoug
                  "I'm not impressed (and I'm even into choreography . . .)"--Donuthole
                  "I too was fortunate to leave with my same balls."--byu71

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                  • I only use the phrase "orders of magnitude" in the plural which is to mean generally something that's way way bigger as in the opposite of "incremental change" and it should be assume to mean anything 10 times greater to infinitely bigger.

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                    • Originally posted by tooblue View Post
                      Then it has been edited, and reads much better for it.
                      No, it hasn't been edited. My first quote was from a different portion of the paper. The second one was almost at the end.
                      "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

                      Comment


                      • All this nitpicking over a phrase. Come on, guys. This is an area where even small magnitudes matter!
                        "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                        "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                        "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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                        • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                          All this nitpicking over a phrase. Come on, guys. This is an area where even small magnitudes matter!
                          Agreed--even if indirectly.

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                          • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                            No, it hasn't been edited. My first quote was from a different portion of the paper. The second one was almost at the end.
                            End of semester and busy marking, so not paying too close attention. My question was sincere. I found the use of the terms 'small magnitude' curious. I understand it's significance in the context of math, or even the cosmos. But as you say this is a social science research paper. As such its scope is not concerned with size in either of those contexts. Perhaps it is an oversight, missed in the editing process? Regardless, the qualifying term "small" does not negate that a magnitude, especially in its effect, is immense.

                            Again, in my opinion and in my experience, someone writing a social science paper doesn't just throw those terms in there willy nilly, or even merely to affirm effect size of marriage and religiosity on sexual satisfaction. The use of the terms strike me as more deliberate in their intent. Perhaps somewhere mentioned in the methodology the researchers provide more context and perhaps a citation to better explain the terms use?

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                            • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                              All this nitpicking over a phrase. Come on, guys. This is an area where even small magnitudes matter!
                              I'm sure I wouldn't know
                              Last edited by Clark Addison; 04-25-2019, 05:13 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                                All this nitpicking over a phrase. Come on, guys. This is an area where even small magnitudes matter!
                                Now would you say, infinitesimally small?

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