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Thread: The Police Brutality Thread

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    Sorry, but I don't live in fear of the police. I've run the numbers and the numbers also agree with my risk assessment.
    I live in a way that I mostly avoid the police, but my interactions with them have been uniformly bad. The last time I was in a car that was pulled over the female officer yelled at my wife, threatened to arrest me, threatened to detain us for over an hour when I asked for her badge number, and amazingly the in car recording "disappeared" per her supervisors when I checked back on my complaint.

    Sure, you are fine, as long as you stay a mile wide of their line, but they wield incredible power, and often abuse it.
    Last edited by TexTechCoug; 05-09-2012 at 06:11 PM.

  2. #32

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    The audio was actually from mics attached to the cops, it was synced with the video for the trial.

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewth8tr View Post
    The audio was actually from mics attached to the cops, it was synced with the video for the trial.

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    Ah, that makes more sense.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    All Trayvon Martin kidding aside, the reason why this story hasn't had more traction nationally yet is because the victim is white.
    No, it's because the responsible party isn't getting off scott free.
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  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by DU Ute View Post
    No, it's because the responsible party isn't getting off scott free.
    Rodney King

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    Rodney King
    That was over 20 years ago. The King beating was a big story long before the officers were acquitted. The Martin story wasn't a story until it became apparent Zimmerman wasn't going to face any consequences.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DU Ute View Post
    That was over 20 years ago. The King beating was a big story long before the officers were acquitted. The Martin story wasn't a story until it became apparent Zimmerman wasn't going to face any consequences.
    This isn't really true. In the days immediately after Trevon was killed, black students in my classes were talking about it. I recall because I didn't understand what they were talking about at the time, but one student had brought in a bag of skittles, and was eating them in class. A different black student asked if she was eating skittles because of what had happened in Florida, and she said that was indeed the reason. The weirdness of the conversation made it stick in my mind. A month or so later, it was national headlines, and we were all talking about it. At that point I made the connection between the skittles and the prior conversation. But what I am really saying is that to the black community, it had been a 'big story' from day one.

  8. #38
    Motor Boatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Depending on which sources you look at, there are around 700,000 police officers in this country not including Federal Agents.

    Do you guys really think that what occurred in this case is an example of how most of them operate?

    Because that is crap. Most cops are very decent people with solid families and good character. Hell, they are probably far more honest and trustworthy as people than the average lawyer is.

    Most cops know they are held to a higher standard than the general public and they live their lives accordingly.

    You can't judge all police officers by the actions of a few assholes. That only works when describing attorneys.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
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  9. #39

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    Devildog I think you're smarter than this. No one is saying that this is typical of all police. But wielding a lot of power and knowing that a lot of the time no one is looking over your shoulder invariably leads some people to abuse that power. I have been around way too many cops to get sold on the idea that they are an exception to human nature.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by DU Ute View Post
    That was over 20 years ago. The King beating was a big story long before the officers were acquitted.
    That is precisely my point. It was a big story before we knew what would eventually happen to the officers. IOW, in regard to the severity of public outrage, it didn't matter whether they were getting off scott free or if they would face the worst possible consequences.

    Essentially, your argument is that it was 20 years ago. We might agree to disagree, but in terms of sensitive racial issue such as this one, I don't think much has changed in the last 20 years.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    That is precisely my point. It was a big story before we knew what would eventually happen to the officers. IOW, in regard to the severity of public outrage, it didn't matter whether they were getting off scott free or if they would face the worst possible consequences.

    Essentially, your argument is that it was 20 years ago. We might agree to disagree, but in terms of sensitive racial issue such as this one, I don't think much has changed in the last 20 years.
    That is because our country has a shameful history of black people suffering violence and death at the hands of police, vigilantes and lynch mobs that plenty of people still remember and that many people have experienced personally. This abuse does not exist in the collective memory or experience of white people as a group because it didn't happen to them. It is intuitive that this would create sensitivity among blacks who were the victims of it and whites and other races who feel a strong moral obligation not to repeat it.

    I think all such cases should receive a lot of attention. But given our history as a nation I think it is difficult to argue that anyone should feel aggrieved over some sort of reverse racism, which seems to be what is being strongly hinted at.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    Devildog I think you're smarter than this. No one is saying that this is typical of all police. But wielding a lot of power and knowing that a lot of the time no one is looking over your shoulder invariably leads some people to abuse that power. I have been around way too many cops to get sold on the idea that they are an exception to human nature.
    Have you ever asked any of those cops about IA investigations involving disgruntled citizen complaints?

    Most cops realize that someone is always "looking over their shoulder"... and in many of those cases cops will be punished for a made up story conjured up by someone that didn't want enforcement action taken on them.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides

    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
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  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    That is because our country has a shameful history of black people suffering violence and death at the hands of police, vigilantes and lynch mobs that plenty of people still remember and that many people have experienced personally. This abuse does not exist in the collective memory or experience of white people as a group because it didn't happen to them. It is intuitive that this would create sensitivity among blacks who were the victims of it and whites and other races who feel a strong moral obligation not to repeat it.
    You're preaching to the choir.

    I think all such cases should receive a lot of attention. But given our history as a nation I think it is difficult to argue that anyone should feel aggrieved over some sort of reverse racism, which seems to be what is being strongly hinted at.
    I'm not going to make an assumption as to whether Indy was hinting at reverse racism. I was simply agreeing with Indy's point that race is indeed a major factor in the supposed lack of public outcry in this case. I don't have a problem with it for the exact reasons you explained above. For my part, it doesn't go any deeper than that, so if you're accusing me of hinting that we should be offended at the reverse racism, you couldn't be more mistaken.

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    You're preaching to the choir.



    I'm not going to make an assumption as to whether Indy was hinting at reverse racism. I was simply agreeing with Indy's point that race is indeed a major factor in the supposed lack of public outcry in this case. I don't have a problem with it for the exact reasons you explained above. For my part, it doesn't go any deeper than that, so if you're accusing me of hinting that we should be offended at the reverse racism, you couldn't be more mistaken.
    Gotcha.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog View Post
    Have you ever asked any of those cops about IA investigations involving disgruntled citizen complaints?

    Most cops realize that someone is always "looking over their shoulder"... and in many of those cases cops will be punished for a made up story conjured up by someone that didn't want enforcement action taken on them.
    In my profession there is the expression "tie goes to the officer." Whether it is in a courtroom or an IA investigation and the only evidence is an officer's word against the criminal suspect's word unless what the officer is saying makes absolutely no rational sense he will be believed every single time. Officers who step over the line don't do it with you and me, they do it with people who no one will believe. They are unaccountable in those scenarios and just like all other human beings the temptation is too much for some of them.

    Most cops are good cops in a few of them are bad. Same thing is true of lawyers. People are people.

  16. #46

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    Disgusting. There is absolutely no excuse for what these thugs with badges did. Asshole cop was looking for a fight. Like the dad said, his son was guilty of "contempt of cop". This was murder, plain and simple.
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  17. #47
    Motor Boatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    In my profession there is the expression "tie goes to the officer." Whether it is in a courtroom or an IA investigation and the only evidence is an officer's word against the criminal suspect's word unless what the officer is saying makes absolutely no rational sense he will be believed every single time. Officers who step over the line don't do it with you and me, they do it with people who no one will believe. They are unaccountable in those scenarios and just like all other human beings the temptation is too much for some of them.

    Most cops are good cops in a few of them are bad. Same thing is true of lawyers. People are people.
    The bolded part is just not true. Especially when the offenses are minor.

    I do agree with you that people are people. There are some bad ones that manage to obtain badges... They ordinarily don't keep them very long.

    Good cops despise bad cops. They are a disgrace.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
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  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog View Post
    The bolded part is just not true. Especially when the offenses are minor.

    I do agree with you that people are people. There are some bad ones that manage to obtain badges... They ordinarily don't keep them very long.

    Good cops despise bad cops. They are a disgrace.
    Cops have to be held to higher standards. If they can't handle have their every move scrutinized, they're in the wrong profession. I have seen far too many abuses with my own eyes to ever trust them, especially white cops. I'd make a horrible juror.
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  19. #49
    Motor Boatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    Cops have to be held to higher standards. If they can't handle have their every move scrutinized, they're in the wrong profession.
    You are more correct than you even realize.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
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    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
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  20. #50
    Heartless Bastard Indy Coug's Avatar
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    Damn straight it's reverse racism. If a black man was beaten to a bloody pulp on video, along with the audio of his terrible demise:

    1. This story would have made headlines back in July or August of last year, not this week

    2. The level of scrutiny from media and various political factions would be so high that it would overwhelm the newspaper headlines and air time on television.

    But since it was only a mentally ill white man, there's no danger of rioting, so it serves no purpose for the media and other ne'er-do-wells to stir the pot for their own nefarious purposes.
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  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog View Post
    You are more correct than you even realize.
    FTR, again, I've written many times that I think cops deserve a sabbatical. Every 5-7 years, we should give them six months off to do absolutely nothing related to policing. And, yes, I'm willing to pay for it.

    I also support requiring college degrees for cops, ending the war on drugs completely, and harsher penalties for using a weapon in the commission of a crime.
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  22. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    FTR, again, I've written many times that I think cops deserve a sabbatical. Every 5-7 years, we should give them six months off to do absolutely nothing related to policing. And, yes, I'm willing to pay for it.

    I also support requiring college degrees for cops, ending the war on drugs completely, and harsher penalties for using a weapon in the commission of a crime.
    Good luck finding enough people with college degrees willing to be cops.

  23. #53
    Heartless Bastard Indy Coug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    Good luck finding enough people with college degrees willing to be cops.
    I have seen news stories about people turned down for being too intelligent. The explanation given is that they would be too bored by the monotony and lack of intellectual stimulation.
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  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    I have seen news stories about people turned down for being too intelligent. The explanation given is that they would be too bored by the monotony and lack of intellectual stimulation.
    I am sure that it was more of a "you're too intelligent, and I have to hire the deadbeat son of my cousin/boss/lady I am sleeping with..."
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  25. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog View Post
    The bolded part is just not true. Especially when the offenses are minor.

    I do agree with you that people are people. There are some bad ones that manage to obtain badges... They ordinarily don't keep them very long.

    Good cops despise bad cops. They are a disgrace.
    I have a great deal of courtroom experience to the contrary, but perhaps things are not the same everywhere.

  26. #56
    Motor Boatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    FTR, again, I've written many times that I think cops deserve a sabbatical. Every 5-7 years, we should give them six months off to do absolutely nothing related to policing. And, yes, I'm willing to pay for it.

    I also support requiring college degrees for cops, ending the war on drugs completely, and harsher penalties for using a weapon in the commission of a crime.
    In our poor economy, with shrinking budgets, reduced benefits, and cutting positions... there are fewer cops and more work to do.

    No cops anywhere I know of, are going to be taking a paid sabbatical anytime soon. I would like to see somebody propose this though... The response would be funny to watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    Good luck finding enough people with college degrees willing to be cops.
    It's usually the cops with degrees that become the leaders. I don't know anything about the situation that this thread is about... but if the situation is as described... It was those leaders themselves that allowed a situation like this to occur. Plain and simple failure to train, and failure to supervise.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    I have a great deal of courtroom experience to the contrary, but perhaps things are not the same everywhere.
    Dan I'm sure your experience is valid. Equating courtrooms to IA investigations is probably inaccurate. The politics that exist within a department (where everyone is a cop) is very different than in a courtroom.

    Plain and simple. Good cops always try to weigh their actions, they know they are responsible to the citizens they serve, and they try to weed out their own ranks of those they feel, don't honor their responsibilities.

    In spite of this, many citizens still view all police as thugs and that perception isn't true from my view.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides

    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
    -Miyamoto Musashi

    Si vis pacem, para bellum


  27. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    Sorry, but I don't live in fear of the police. I've run the numbers and the numbers also agree with my risk assessment.
    I would be interested in an explanation of this risk assessment.
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  28. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog View Post
    Plain and simple. Good cops always try to weigh their actions, they know they are responsible to the citizens they serve, and they try to weed out their own ranks of those they feel, don't honor their responsibilities.

    In spite of this, many citizens still view all police as thugs and that perception isn't true from my view.
    Welcome to my world amigo.

  29. #59
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    Yet another example of why I don't trust cops.

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    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  30. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    Yet another example of why I don't trust cops.

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    That's pretty outrageous. Tasers are used way too often.
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