The Police Brutality Thread

[Commando]

Right up the street from me. This piece of shit deserves the absolute worst the world can hand him. I'm kind of scared to think about what would happen if I saw him in public. How is this sadistic fucker better than these people we revile that go on shooting rampages?

[BigFatMeanie]

The laws on justifiable use of force by officers is too loose. The standard needs to be tightened to "clear evidence of danger" rather than simply a belief in, or fear of, danger.

[New Mexican Disaster]

Horrific video, conveniently released the day after the officer is acquitted:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.272968c6b5a3

No race angle here; will it finally move the needle on public opinion?

I am almost certain that the cop's family is from Spanish Fork.

[Northwestcoug]

The cop who killed Shaver was fired a couple of months after the shooting, and the cop who was barking the orders left the country. Nice that he gets to start a new life.

[cowboy]

No race angle here; will it finally move the needle on public opinion?

I couldn't watch it because I'm a baby like that. This is about as bad as abuse of power gets, but I'm curious what you mean by your statement?

[wuapinmon]

These juries....wtf?

[Jeff Lebowski]

These juries....wtf?

It’s almost like they have access to more complete information than we do or something.

[old_gregg]

The laws on justifiable use of force by officers is too loose. The standard needs to be tightened to "clear evidence of danger" rather than simply a belief in, or fear of, danger.

no.

[Northwestcoug]

I couldn't watch it because I'm a baby like that. This is about as bad as abuse of power gets, but I'm curious what you mean by your statement?

This isn't going to be very coherent, since I'm between a nordic ski meet and a work Christmas party. But if I don't respond now I probably won't. By and large, the public trusts police. My feeling is that police are given a huge benefit of the doubt when it comes to questions of abuse of power. I usually share that sentiment when these types of cases are publicized, and I try to see it from the cops' perspective.

But I think these cases are too often tried from the wrong perspective. We keep hearing about this 'reasonable' standard of cops fearing for their own safety. In these cases, the defense is that a cop was fearful of his own or others' safety, and was the resultant action reasonable given that fear? Was this cop fearful for his life? Obviously. Was it reasonable for the cop to treat this situation as a potential threat? Yes. Were his actions reasonable? The video clearly shows they weren't.

I really think cops need to be held to a higher standard. I empathize with the danger police face daily. But no matter how many times JL claims jurors hear evidence that the public never does, these videos are evidence enough that police interactions can go very bad based on faulty judgment. Of course we need to remember to place these incidents in a context of a dangerous job. But they have to do better. This was a murder. It went wrong very fast because 2 cops escalated an already tense situation.

I agree wholeheartedly with this article that was published today in NRO:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...-daniel-shaver

There is also a recent 'More Perfect' podcast that talks about the 'reasonable' standard with police violence. It's very interested and very timely IMO:

https://www.wnyc.org/story/mr-graham-and-reasonable-man



I would hope that in the future, the public can still hold police in high esteem, yet realize that they should be held to an even higher standard. It seems that 'fear' is the only standard they are being judged by. They can do better.

[BigFatMeanie]

no.

yes

[Donuthole]

Geragos has been talking about this case on Carolla’s podcast for nearly a year. He suspected that because of judicial rulings about what evidence could come in, the cop was going to be acquitted.

He also believes he will hit the state for 8 figures in the civil suit. Double lose for the citizens of AZ.

[Jeff Lebowski]

But no matter how many times JL claims jurors hear evidence that the public never does, these videos are evidence enough that police interactions can go very bad based on faulty judgment.

WTH? How is the first part of that sentence even related to the second part? When have I ever claimed that the police don’t occasionally show bad judgment?

[Northwestcoug]

WTH? How is the first part of that sentence even related to the second part? When have I ever claimed that the police don’t occasionally show bad judgment?

Hey, in my defense, I said it was going to be incoherent!

I didn't mean to imply that you think police are exempt from bad judgment. My impression on this thread is that you feel the public fervor about these videos is too harsh, and doesn't take into account mitigating factors (and that's a reasonable opinion). And your reply to Wuap's question about how the jury could have acquitted the cop reinforced that. The point I was trying to make was that in this case, I think the video speaks for itself. There's no mitigating factors that put his actions in a better light; in fact, they make it worse for him.

I didn't mean it to come across as a cheap shot.

[wuapinmon]

It’s almost like they have access to more complete information than we do or something.

Or, better yet, they DON'T, which isn't to deny the accused due process, but explains, probably better than your assertion, why they keep acquitting people who do this kind of shit.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Or, better yet, they DON'T, which isn't to deny the accused due process, but explains, probably better than your assertion, why they keep acquitting people who do this kind of shit.

Yep.

You never know what constraints were imposed on the jury. Or the full body of information they were asked to consider. Sure, juries do dumb things (OJ Simpson), but it always concerns me when we rip juries based on a short youtube video.