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Thread: Why do you or yours hate Mother's Day

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    Striving for mediocrity Art Vandelay's Avatar
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    Default Why do you or yours hate Mother's Day

    I've learned over the past several years how many Mormon women dislike Mother's Day. I'm sure the reasons are varied. Since I will be speaking for the 5th consecutive year on Mommy Dearest Day, I would like to hear what others dislike, or like, about the second Sunday in May.

    For Mrs. V, the worst is hearing talks or lessons about how perfect someone's mom or wife is. It makes her feel very guilty and inadequate.

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    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    I dislike Mother's Day because all the Sunday brunches are off limits to TR holders without some Clintonesque interpretation of the Law.
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    Every woman and mother in my family likes Mother's day. No need to change it for the few complainers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    I dislike Mother's Day because all the Sunday brunches are off limits to TR holders without some Clintonesque interpretation of the Law.
    I've never heard the TR question about not eating a Mother's day brunch.

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    My wife thinks Mother's Day is great and thinks it's one of the lamest things ever how so many Mormon moms make it a guilt fest day as they compare themselves to Supermom's.

    edit: didn't read your whole post AV to the end, and didn't mean to be insensitive.

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    I don't hate Mother's Day but I also don't get the big deal about it.

    I am not bothered by the "my mom/wife is perfect" talks because I know they are untrue, albeit with a nice intent.

    I like the Heavenly Father model for speaking about wife awesomeness: the less, the better...in fact, almost nothing at all!
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    Senior Member Clark Addison's Avatar
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    My wife does not like Mother's Day because she feels a good deal of Mormon Mother guilt.

    I have mentioned before the whole Jack Spratt guilt arrangement in our marriage.

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    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    I guess some people hate their mothers. I hear that can happen. I hope they get the help they need.
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    Senior Member il Padrino Ute's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan because it's an expensive time of year. Not so much Mothers Day, but my wife and mother-in-law have birthdays coming up within a week of it, and a nephew and a niece within two weeks.
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    אלוף NorthwestUteFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I've never heard the TR question about not eating a Mother's day brunch.
    Champagne brunch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay
    For Mrs. V, the worst is hearing talks or lessons about how perfect someone's mom or wife is. It makes her feel very guilty and inadequate.
    in the interest of minimizing marital discord I STRONGLY suggest you refrain from speaking in church about the wonders of your own mother. No matter how loved and appreciated we make our wives feel, if we mention Mom then wifey feels compared to Mom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Addison
    My wife does not like Mother's Day because she feels a good deal of Mormon Mother guilt.

    I have mentioned before the whole Jack Spratt guilt arrangement in our marriage.
    (This probably deserves its own thread.) My wife and I spoke at length over this very issue yesterday. She claims most Mormon women have a very hard time "accepting" Christ's atonement in their own lives, and thus carry a tremendous burden of guilt needlessly. We claim to have a more perfect understanding of repentance and of the atonement, but for some reason our church can socialize people into carrying great load of burdensome guilt when they SHOULD simply do their best day to day and accept that Christ's grace will make up the slack where they fall short.

    To continually perseverate over minutae (am I a bad mother if I don't let my child do x&y?) or things which they cannot control (am I a bad mother if my child isn't a perfect angel in church?) is to hamper one's own personal growth.

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    I don't get the Mormon guilt thing causing mothers to hate Mother's day. I think my mom used to hate Mother's Day because of it and has slowly progressed. My wife loves Mother's Day and completely blows off the guilt issues.

    Is there another parallel? Do we hate 4th of July because it makes us feel guilty about how patriotic we are? Do we hate Christmas and Easter because we feel guilty about our level of discipleship? Do we hate the NBA playoffs because it reminds us of our athletic failures of the past? It just seems absurd to me. The day is designed to honor and celebrate you. Let people dote on you for a day and enjoy it.

    At the heart of it, I think pride is at the heart of the Mormon guilt on Mother's Day thing. The basis of it is that I believe I should be the #1 Mom in the world. It's OK for everyone else not to be the #1 Mom, because they suck and they're idiots but ME I'M THE TOP DOG (what's alpha equivalent for females?).

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    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    If guys prepare and do something nice, they should actually LOVE Mother's Day
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    BYU Delenda Est Mormon Red Death's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    The basis of it is that I believe I should be the #1 Mom in the world. It's OK for everyone else not to be the #1 Mom, because they suck and they're idiots but ME I'M THE TOP DOG (what's alpha equivalent for females?).
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    My wife thinks Mother's Day is great and thinks it's one of the lamest things ever how so many Mormon moms make it a guilt fest day as they compare themselves to Supermom's.

    edit: didn't read your whole post AV to the end, and didn't mean to be insensitive.
    I don't compare myself to Supermoms, I compare myself to SuperGabers and Soccermom and obviously, I'll never measure up to either.
    What's to explain? It's a bunch of people, most of whom you've never met, who are just as likely to be homicidal maniacs as they are to be normal everyday people, with whom you share the minutiae of your everyday life. It's totally normal, and everyone would understand.

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    Senior Member Clark Addison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    I don't get the Mormon guilt thing causing mothers to hate Mother's day. I think my mom used to hate Mother's Day because of it and has slowly progressed. My wife loves Mother's Day and completely blows off the guilt issues.

    Is there another parallel? Do we hate 4th of July because it makes us feel guilty about how patriotic we are? Do we hate Christmas and Easter because we feel guilty about our level of discipleship? Do we hate the NBA playoffs because it reminds us of our athletic failures of the past? It just seems absurd to me. The day is designed to honor and celebrate you. Let people dote on you for a day and enjoy it.

    At the heart of it, I think pride is at the heart of the Mormon guilt on Mother's Day thing. The basis of it is that I believe I should be the #1 Mom in the world. It's OK for everyone else not to be the #1 Mom, because they suck and they're idiots but ME I'M THE TOP DOG (what's alpha equivalent for females?).
    I agree with some of this, but disagree with some. First off, it isn't just the holiday itself that is making them feel guilty, the holiday just reminds them of their guilt (and sometimes reinforces it).

    Pride may have something to do with it, but I think more of it is due to things like:

    • Girls are taught from a young age that being a mother is the most important job of their lives.
    • There is a long list of things that we are supposed to do, which not a single person does perfectly. I think this message, that "No one does all of this 100% of the time", has been better publicized over time, but it still gets ignored sometimes, especially on Mother's Day
    • We are implicitely (and sometimes explicitly) taught that if we do all the things we are supposed to do, then our kids will turn out good, will go on missions, will marry in the temple, and will have strong testimonies.

    So if a mother has been taught these things her whole life, and one of her kids losses his testimony and doesn't go on a mission, what will she logically think? She knows she hasen't done everything she was supposed to do (because no one does), so it is easy for her to feel that she bears some responsibility for whatever bad things happen. Mother's Day at church can be hard because the people talking at church all appear to be people who are strong and have good testimonies, and they generally spend their time talking about how perfect their mothers' were, so it just reinforces the idea that your kids didn't turn out like this because you weren't as good as that mother (or, for the younger parents, because you aren't as good as that mother, your kids won't turn out like that).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Addison View Post
    I agree with some of this, but disagree with some. First off, it isn't just the holiday itself that is making them feel guilty, the holiday just reminds them of their guilt (and sometimes reinforces it).

    Pride may have something to do with it, but I think more of it is due to things like:

    • Girls are taught from a young age that being a mother is the most important job of their lives.
    • There is a long list of things that we are supposed to do, which not a single person does perfectly. I think this message, that "No one does all of this 100% of the time", has been better publicized over time, but it still gets ignored sometimes, especially on Mother's Day
    • We are implicitely (and sometimes explicitly) taught that if we do all the things we are supposed to do, then our kids will turn out good, will go on missions, will marry in the temple, and will have strong testimonies.

    So if a mother has been taught these things her whole life, and one of her kids losses his testimony and doesn't go on a mission, what will she logically think? She knows she hasen't done everything she was supposed to do (because no one does), so it is easy for her to feel that she bears some responsibility for whatever bad things happen. Mother's Day at church can be hard because the people talking at church all appear to be people who are strong and have good testimonies, and they generally spend their time talking about how perfect their mothers' were, so it just reinforces the idea that your kids didn't turn out like this because you weren't as good as that mother (or, for the younger parents, because you aren't as good as that mother, your kids won't turn out like that).
    I'd like to think that by the time my children are adults, they will be able to, with enough notice and preparation, come up with 10 to 15 minutes worth of material on why I am a good mom for a Sacrament meeting talk. I realize that they could just as easily come up with 10 to 15 minutes (or more) of material on why I suck as a mother, too. I assume that the moms being heralded in the talks on Mother's Day are probably like me, and that for every inspiring story told there is the untold times when she lost her patience, forgot an important event, or spent too much time on sports message boards.
    What's to explain? It's a bunch of people, most of whom you've never met, who are just as likely to be homicidal maniacs as they are to be normal everyday people, with whom you share the minutiae of your everyday life. It's totally normal, and everyone would understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marsupial View Post
    I'd like to think that by the time my children are adults, they will be able to, with enough notice and preparation, come up with 10 to 15 minutes worth of material on why I am a good mom for a Sacrament meeting talk. I realize that they could just as easily come up with 10 to 15 minutes (or more) of material on why I suck as a mother, too. I assume that the moms being heralded in the talks on Mother's Day are probably like me, and that for every inspiring story told there is the untold times when she lost her patience, forgot an important event, or spent too much time on sports message boards.
    Good point. I've never suspected that any mother spoken of in sacrament was perfect.

    I suspect that this "Mormon Mothers' guilt" that is being discussed is not all-that-common.

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    Senior Member Clark Addison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marsupial View Post
    I'd like to think that by the time my children are adults, they will be able to, with enough notice and preparation, come up with 10 to 15 minutes worth of material on why I am a good mom for a Sacrament meeting talk. I realize that they could just as easily come up with 10 to 15 minutes (or more) of material on why I suck as a mother, too. I assume that the moms being heralded in the talks on Mother's Day are probably like me, and that for every inspiring story told there is the untold times when she lost her patience, forgot an important event, or spent too much time on sports message boards.
    Logically, I think everyone gets this, but is religious guilt always logically based?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Good point. I've never suspected that any mother spoken of in sacrament was perfect.

    I suspect that this "Mormon Mothers' guilt" that is being discussed is not all-that-common.
    I suspect that it is quite common, but my opinion, as yours, may be completely off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Addison View Post
    I suspect that it is quite common, but my opinion, as yours, may be completely off.
    Yep, I could be wrong. I'm only basing this off of my own experience and people I know. I think these people are pretty typical Mormons, but maybe they are not. Anyway, I'm not aware of a lot of this Mormon Guilt, or Motherly Guilt. Maybe all the people I know are just super-moms. But they are not. Now that I think of it, the super-moms may be the ones' harboring this quilt. The more normal moms I know are not.

    We actually had an EQ lesson on this Sunday, so I know it does exist. The recently called high councilor kept telling us how he's not perfect and how he's not as spiritual as he probably should be. He made a bad analogy to the time value of money and compound interest and all the spirituality he's lost by not investing in enough chapters of scripture-reading in days past. He tried to get us all to consider our own pathetic (not his word) level of spirituality. But I really don't think he really feels that bad. It's just something that is now motivating him to action.

    Personally, I'm felling pretty good about my level of spirituality, though I'm sure I don't put in as much effort in scripture-reading or other churchiness as that guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    Is there another parallel? Do we hate 4th of July because it makes us feel guilty about how patriotic we are?
    Yes, patriotic fervor is offensive to others if they can be convinced that the international community does not approve of American demonstrations of their own exceptionalism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
    I've learned over the past several years how many Mormon women dislike Mother's Day. I'm sure the reasons are varied. Since I will be speaking for the 5th consecutive year on Mommy Dearest Day, I would like to hear what others dislike, or like, about the second Sunday in May.

    For Mrs. V, the worst is hearing talks or lessons about how perfect someone's mom or wife is. It makes her feel very guilty and inadequate.
    Maybee you should talk about guilt since that it is an issue with your flock. Make an effort to get them to see the good in themselves and view the atonement as something positive that allows us all to become what we want to become.

    If you are not comfortable with that, I can give you some notes about fake hooters. I don't know how the womenfolk would feel, but I am thinking the menfolk would vote you to make a guest appearance on fathers day!
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    My heart aches for the 4-5 women in our ward that can't have children of their own for medical reasons or are single. One in particular would always skip it, saying she was on-call (pediatric intensive care nurse).

    I think the church exaggerates the parents role in their children's outcomes, which takes deep roots and doesn't go away. My MIL is always weepy on Mother's Day. One of her seven children has been a source of guilt for 25+ years from drug use and general douchebagery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SportUTE View Post
    I think the church exaggerates the parents role in their children's outcomes, which takes deep roots and doesn't go away. My MIL is always weepy on Mother's Day. One of her seven children has been a source of guilt for 25+ years from drug use and general douchebagery.
    Certainly does. I can't believe some people still believe the old proverb "Teach a child the way they should go and they will never depart from it." Everybody knows examples of the contrary occuring.

    All these guilty parents should read Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids: Why Being a Great Parent is Less Work and More Fun Than You Think which goes into the very small effect parents have on their childrens' outcomes.

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Selfish-Reasons-Have-More-Kids/dp/046501867X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304374861&sr=1-1-spell"]Amazon.com: Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids: Why Being a Great Parent is Less Work and More Fun Than You Think (9780465018673): Bryan Caplan: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41KTXHmJjhL.@@AMEPARAM@@41KTXHmJjhL[/ame]

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    My stepmother pretends to hate it as a way to get attention. The poor woman is an attention blackhole. She'll carry on about what a horrible mother she is (actually, she's an excellent mother; unfortunately (for me), she also happens to be the world's shittiest stepmother), and inevitably, everyone showers her with the attention and affirmation she needs to continue her somewhat complex, miserable existence.
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    Senior Member il Padrino Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marsupial View Post
    I'd like to think that by the time my children are adults, they will be able to, with enough notice and preparation, come up with 10 to 15 minutes worth of material on why I am a good mom for a Sacrament meeting talk. I realize that they could just as easily come up with 10 to 15 minutes (or more) of material on why I suck as a mother, too. I assume that the moms being heralded in the talks on Mother's Day are probably like me, and that for every inspiring story told there is the untold times when she lost her patience, forgot an important event, or spent too much time on sports message boards.
    I'm sure they'll be able to come up with many, many reasons why you were a great mother when they speak at your funeral.
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    My Mother in Law hates Mothers Day because she wants everyone to think of that awesome thing she would like to do/eat/get/hear and present it to her on Mother's Day. Unfortunately, she doesn't know what that amazingly life altering thing is that she would like to do/eat/get/hear but she'll realize what "it" is when she does it/eats it/gets it/and hears it. Unfortunately, it is impossible to meet such expectations and her children don't love her because they fail at meeting her expectations every year. Thus, she hates Mother's Day every year until about two weeks before Mother's Day when her irrational expectation takes over again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Certainly does. I can't believe some people still believe the old proverb "Teach a child the way they should go and they will never depart from it." Everybody knows examples of the contrary occuring.

    All these guilty parents should read Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids: Why Being a Great Parent is Less Work and More Fun Than You Think which goes into the very small effect parents have on their childrens' outcomes.

    Amazon.com: Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids: Why Being a Great Parent is Less Work and More Fun Than You Think (9780465018673): Bryan Caplan: Books
    That book looks pretty interesting. At least the reviews made it sound like it. Where did you hear about it and would you also recommend it to non-guilty parents?

    To answer the OP, the thing about M-day that bugs me is the name--it's not descriptive enough to include all expected activities. My wife seems to think that it's called mother/wife/daughter/grandmother/etc. day.
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    Living in the Past ... FMCoug's Avatar
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    I take exception to this. I hate everything and everyone. I am not a bigot nor a respecter of persons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_Student View Post
    That book looks pretty interesting. At least the reviews made it sound like it. Where did you hear about it and would you also recommend it to non-guilty parents?

    To answer the OP, the thing about M-day that bugs me is the name--it's not descriptive enough to include all expected activities. My wife seems to think that it's called mother/wife/daughter/grandmother/etc. day.
    It's just your mother and the mother of your children day. Grandmothers also should be recognized, but the main focus is mom, and mom of your kids.
    What's to explain? It's a bunch of people, most of whom you've never met, who are just as likely to be homicidal maniacs as they are to be normal everyday people, with whom you share the minutiae of your everyday life. It's totally normal, and everyone would understand.

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  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_Student View Post
    To answer the OP, the thing about M-day that bugs me is the name--it's not descriptive enough to include all expected activities. My wife seems to think that it's called mother/wife/daughter/grandmother/etc. day.
    My parents are the same way. My wife and I recently had our first child so this is her first mother's day as a mother. All of the previous years when we'd talk on mothers day they could never understand that since my wife was not a mother this holiday wasn't for her. It isn't woman's day but mother's day.

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