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  • #31
    For the record, I simply want to clarify, that the views I have expressed in this thread should not be interpreted as authoritative in an way shape or form. I am NOT Wikipedia.

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    • #32
      "Fracing" is technically correct because it stands for "fracturing". Of course "fracking" is much cooler because that is the placeholder swear word in Battlestar Gallactica...

      The company who formerly employed me worked on some very interesting developments with coal gasification. Rather than dig a mine or filet off the topsoil and dirt to lay bare the coal seam, they used their well drilling technology to drill down to the coal seam. Then using angular drilling techniques they would chew up the soft coal with the bit and inject water in to the coal seam. The crushed coal dust would effectively break down and methane would dissolve into the water, and the entire slury was retrieved. Put the whole mixture through a chemical reactor, retrieve the methane, retrieve and filter the water, and reinject the water to start the whole process again.

      I don't recall who did it, but one research group overpressurized a seam in Wyoming a while back and contaminated the wells in the area with benzene, etc. They cleaned themselves out over a year or two, but the possibility for bad consequences exists. The issue cast our company in a bad light for our own coal gasification operation, even though we had absolutely nothing to do with the Wyoming event and used a different process in our seam, and were 1000+ miles away.

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      • #33
        The most geographically varied and largest electrical transmission grid district is in the west. Here's a map:



        With transmission lines roaming all over the west, from San Fran to LA to Phoenix and Vegas, guess where the headquarters of the Western Electrical Coordinating Council is? Over on State Street.

        Funny story how this extremely critical component of the grid ended up in Salt Lake. It started with the Great Northeastern Blackout of 1965, ranging from Ontario to New York, as far south as Florida and as far west as Chicago.

        http://archives.cbc.ca/economy_busin...gy/topics/874/

        When the grid was put back together, the Feds decided that they needed geographically disparate grid centers that could independently run grid operations and diversify risk of a complete nationwide blackout.

        So they carved up the grid, with the largest region in the west. The problem was, the software used to run the grid was extremely sophisticated and required a huge amount of computing power. The only computer system in the west that had capability and capacity in 1967 when the new system was brought online was the University of Utah. Voila.

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        • #34
          [Utes], although slow and dangerous behind the wheel, can still serve a purpose.

          Cool backstory, KL.
          Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

          "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

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          • #35
            I needed to add a one-hour class to my sked for next semester. The only one offered: global warming law. ugh. I went ahead and enrolled. Now pardon me while I go gag myself with Al Gore's organic bamboo-fiber necktie.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Babs View Post
              I needed to add a one-hour class to my sked for next semester. The only one offered: global warming law. ugh. I went ahead and enrolled. Now pardon me while I go gag myself with Al Gore's organic bamboo-fiber necktie.
              Is it taught by an adjunct named Jeff Civins?
              Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

              "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

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              • #37
                Originally posted by RedSox View Post
                [Utes], although slow and dangerous behind the wheel, can still serve a purpose.
                You have a rapist's wit, you private school punk. The U has historically been, is currently, and will in the future remain on the cutting edge of computer technology.

                Originally posted by babs
                The only one offered: global warming law. ugh.
                You may as well go in with an open mind and enjoy it. Global Warming appears to be a real growth industry.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
                  You may as well go in with an open mind and enjoy it. Global Warming appears to be a real growth industry.
                  Just so not my cup of tea (though I do like green tea.)

                  Originally posted by RedSox View Post
                  Is it taught by an adjunct named Jeff Civins?
                  I don't know. It's not under his name, but I think it's being team taught, so maybe.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
                    You have a rapist's wit, you private school punk. The U has historically been, is currently, and will in the future remain on the cutting edge of computer technology.



                    You may as well go in with an open mind and enjoy it. Global Warming appears to be a real growth industry.
                    I forgot that quote from the movie and was very close to explaining to you that I was plagiarizing a quote from Dumb and Dumber.......
                    Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                    "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

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                    • #40
                      A century after the infamous Nikolai Tesla v. Thomas Edison dustup, they still haven't coordinated AC and DC transmission lines. The problem is that both Tesla/Westinghouse and Edison were correct, with a breakeven point at 250 miles. Anything shorter than that, it's more efficient to build AC transmission lines. But over 250 miles, DC is the way to go. (Not your father's DC, this is a souped up version of DC with hugely expensive onramp converters)

                      Utah has built 0 transmissions lines since the 70s. Rocky Mountain Power is gearing up to build more, and this more than anything else is what will drive up energy prices for Utah in the next 10 years. (The LDS church is predicting a doubling of prices.) Even before the 70s Utah Power & Light fought off federally built transmission lines, there are none in Utah. So ratepayers will have to fund the entire bill, currently estimated at a $1 billion per mile. (Yeah, I thought I misheard that).

                      I think Utah should try to get California to pay for the transmission lines, since CA buys Utah power and exports the pollution to Utah. Wyoming would like nothing more than to do the same, running a DC line from their state to the thirsty energy shores of Cali, smack dab straight across UT. IF this happens, UT won't be able to use the transmission line at all (remember the prohibitively expensive cost of onramp/offramp converters?) The energy ghettoization of Utah.

                      More important, there are no transmission lines from the fertile wind power sites of the midwest and Wyoming to the major population centers along the coast. There is no way a nascent wind energy industry will be able to fund these lines, and fossil fuelites are sitting back on this one, snickering privately. They've already built their lines, which last a surprisingly long time, almost 80 years. Wind entrepreneurs are hoping the Fed will pay for their transmission lines, which is a pipe dream, but can you blame them for thinking they have a chance? They've had the Fed/States pretty much fund their entire wind industry from day one, bless their little not-quite-breaking-even hearts.
                      Last edited by Katy Lied; 05-13-2011, 07:10 AM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post
                        Utah has built 0 transmissions lines since the 70s. Rocky Mountain Power is gearing up to build more, and this more than anything else is what will drive up energy prices for Utah in the next 10 years. (The LDS church is predicting a doubling of prices.) Even before the 70s Utah Power & Light fought off federally built transmission lines, there are none in Utah. So ratepayers will have to fund the entire bill, currently estimated at a $1 billion per mile. (Yeah, I thought I misheard that).
                        Why does it cost so much? Materials and labor can't be anywhere close to that.
                        "What are you prepared to do?" - Jimmy Malone

                        "What choice?" - Abe Petrovsky

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                        • #42
                          I'm really draggin' today.
                          Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

                          "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

                          GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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                          • #43
                            Are they planning to bury the lines? If they are that expensive they will never pay off the installation costs, especially since they are banking on an increase in transmission efficiency as the reason to build the new lines.

                            I think this is more in line with expected costs:


                            What would the average cost per mile be to build the line?
                            The preliminary cost estimates for 500 kV transmission lines range from approximately $1.25 million to $2.0 million per mile of construction for a single circuit transmission line. These costs are estimates based on past projects and industry experience. However, many intangible variables can vary the cost significantly, including rights-of-way costs, necessary substation and line equipment, accessibility and mitigation measures.
                            source: http://www.boardmantohemingway.com/f....aspx#design_6

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
                              Are they planning to bury the lines? If they are that expensive they will never pay off the installation costs, especially since they are banking on an increase in transmission efficiency as the reason to build the new lines.

                              I think this is more in line with expected costs:




                              source: http://www.boardmantohemingway.com/f....aspx#design_6
                              I imagine right-of-way, the ensuing lawsuits and permitting will bump that figure up quite a bit.
                              There's no such thing as luck, only drunken invincibility. Make it happen.

                              Tila Tequila and Juggalos, America’s saddest punchline since the South.

                              Yesterday was Thursday, Thursday
                              Today is Friday, Friday (Partyin’)

                              Tomorrow is Saturday
                              And Sunday comes afterwards

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by landpoke View Post
                                I imagine right-of-way, the ensuing lawsuits and permitting will bump that figure up quite a bit.
                                500x?
                                PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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