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Thread: The Energy Thread

  1. #331
    Senior Member BigFatMeanie's Avatar
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    So, if you PG&E customers that are getting your power cut were in charge of the whole shooting match, say you are the new CEO of PG&E, what would you do instead? Would you do nothing and risk the fire?

    Just curious...

  2. #332
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
    So, if you PG&E customers that are getting your power cut were in charge of the whole shooting match, say you are the new CEO of PG&E, what would you do instead? Would you do nothing and risk the fire?

    Just curious...
    Maybe. I don't have access to all their evaluations or cost/benefit analyses. It is possible that this is the best call. But if it is, it could have been handled much more efficiently.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    It may affect us. This is the biggest mess I have ever seen from them. The PG&E website with outage maps is only working sporadically because they apparently didn't think very many people would try to look at the maps. And the weather here, at least, is not hot or windy. Our building just warned us that we might be without power as of noon.

    Great.
    California is starting to sound like a 3rd world country. You should get a big, fat generator and take advantage of those low gas prices.

    Didn't PG&E file for chapter 11 just less than a year ago to get some protection from the liabilities linked to the last batch of wildfires? I guess I don't blame them for not wanting to start more.
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  4. #334
    Senior Member Katy Lied's Avatar
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    yes. I feel sorry for them- hugely aging infrastructure, caught between a rock and a hard place regarding nuclear, a super active, never-satisfied regulator body. They play the bankruptcy card often, and win because there is no other option. Even if the City takes over, there is still only one option.

  5. #335
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    California is starting to sound like a 3rd world country. You should get a big, fat generator and take advantage of those low gas prices.

    Didn't PG&E file for chapter 11 just less than a year ago to get some protection from the liabilities linked to the last batch of wildfires? I guess I don't blame them for not wanting to start more.
    I actually meant to get a generator but never got around to it. I will wait for prices to come down a little now and then will get one. But, yes, it is becoming more and more like a third world country all the time. I think living here I have become a bit inoculated to the decay, but a good friend from Switzerland visited me here this summer and could not believe how bad things had gotten since he was last here 10-15 years ago.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  6. #336

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I actually meant to get a generator but never got around to it. I will wait for prices to come down a little now and then will get one. But, yes, it is becoming more and more like a third world country all the time. I think living here I have become a bit inoculated to the decay, but a good friend from Switzerland visited me here this summer and could not believe how bad things had gotten since he was last here 10-15 years ago.
    I was in San Diego a few months ago and it didn't seem too bad. It's no Boise, but it was passable.
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  7. #337
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Student View Post
    I was in San Diego a few months ago and it didn't seem too bad. It's no Boise, but it was passable.
    It is still a beautiful place. But the infrastructure is deteriorating (roads and bridges in particular), the homeless problem is becoming chronic and no one has the political will to deal with it, taxes are rising, the cost of living is pretty outrageous, and I find the politics hard to swallow. That all said, I am typing this while sitting outside by the pool on a gorgeous sunny day (PG&E's weather report was far off for our area) with some citrus trees, plum trees, maples and palm trees around me (it looks better than it sounds). Our leaves won't fall for another few weeks. And our winter will be short and bleed into spring in the matter of a month or so. It's not bad. Not bad at all.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  8. #338
    Semper infra dignitatem PaloAltoCougar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    It may affect us. This is the biggest mess I have ever seen from them. The PG&E website with outage maps is only working sporadically because they apparently didn't think very many people would try to look at the maps. And the weather here, at least, is not hot or windy. Our building just warned us that we might be without power as of noon.

    Great.
    PG&E has pushed the start back to 8 PM. We appear to be just outside of an affected area, but at least a portion of our ward will be plunged into darkness this evening. I don't understand the timing or purpose of these blackouts. I get the impression this is both a CYA move and a cynical attempt to show the public how any attempt to reduce the inherent risks of running power lines through fire-prone areas will be unduly burdensome on everyone.

  9. #339
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    PG&E has pushed the start back to 8 PM. We appear to be just outside of an affected area, but at least a portion of our ward will be plunged into darkness this evening. I don't understand the timing or purpose of these blackouts. I get the impression this is both a CYA move and a cynical attempt to show the public how any attempt to reduce the inherent risks of running power lines through fire-prone areas will be unduly burdensome on everyone.
    We just got word we would not be affected, but that we might be in the future. PG&E promised to give us 48 hours notice before they do it. How thoughtful. I think you're exactly right about the CYA move.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    PG&E has pushed the start back to 8 PM. We appear to be just outside of an affected area, but at least a portion of our ward will be plunged into darkness this evening. I don't understand the timing or purpose of these blackouts. I get the impression this is both a CYA move and a cynical attempt to show the public how any attempt to reduce the inherent risks of running power lines through fire-prone areas will be unduly burdensome on everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    We just got word we would not be affected, but that we might be in the future. PG&E promised to give us 48 hours notice before they do it. How thoughtful. I think you're exactly right about the CYA move.
    FWIIW... maybe she could provide some useful advice:

    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
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    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  11. #341
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    FWIIW... maybe she could provide some useful advice:

    I don't get it.

    EDIT: Never mind. I got it.
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  12. #342
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    Hey, has anyone heard from PAC and Creek? Just wondering how the beta test is going...

    jkxfdjc8hsr31.jpg

    The utility has said that it could take one to five days to restore power to its customers. Customers were frustrated as they tried to find information on the blackouts because the utility’s website wasn’t working. By Thursday, PG&E had a new, functioning site.

    High winds of the sort that some areas of California experienced Thursday and other areas were threatened with can down power lines that, if active, can spark wildfires.

    The second phase of the blackout began late Wednesday as PG&E cut power to an additional 234,000 customers, including those in Bay Area cities like San Jose, Oakland and Berkeley. The utility had already cut power to about 513,000 customers across Northern California.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/califor...ty-11570718584
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  13. #343
    Semper infra dignitatem PaloAltoCougar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Hey, has anyone heard from PAC and Creek? Just wondering how the beta test is going...
    ...
    No problem here or at the office, although I use the blackout issue to good advantage when I don't feel like responding quickly to client demands.

  14. #344
    Huge Member BigPiney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    No problem here or at the office, although I use the blackout issue to good advantage when I don't feel like responding quickly to client demands.

  15. #345
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    I just read up a bit in this issue. Pretty interesting especially having spent time both auditing and working at electric utilities. Californians deserve what they are getting in terms of blackouts. Just like the sideline, Mother Nature is undefeated.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  16. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    I just read up a bit in this issue. Pretty interesting especially having spent time both auditing and working at electric utilities. Californians deserve what they are getting in terms of blackouts. Just like the sideline, Mother Nature is undefeated.
    It is climate change that is causing all these problems. Before climate change the wind never blew in California and the weather was always completely prefect.

    In Texas, especially west Texas, the wind blows all the time and so we put up wind turbines. Hey, maybe California can turn this new negative into a positive too.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  17. #347

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Tick View Post
    So...who in California is possibly having their power shut off for the next 3 days? You know...so that PG&E can help us keep forest fires down. (See limiting liability in the dictionary....)

    What a bunch of MFers.

    We are being told that we may be sent home at noon from work when they cut power. To be able to go home and sit in a home....with no power.
    We had a huge outage in our county, but it didn't affect my house or my office, as both are within city limits. Probably half of the county was out for 2 days. Much of the area came back on last night or this morning, but some areas are being told it could be 4 or 5 more days.

  18. #348
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    Yeah, I think we all suspected this was going to happen... someone dying because PG&E shut off the power:

    California man, 67, who relied on oxygen pump dies 12 minutes after PG&E cut down power to his home to prevent wildfires

    • The fire department received a call from Pollock Pines, California, around 3.30am on WednesdayCrews arrived at the scene and found 67-year-old Robert Mardis Sr. unresponsive
    • It was determined that he was dependent on oxygen and died just 12 minutes after Pacific Gas and Electric shut down power
    • Although the cause of death has not formally been confirmed by officials, Mardis Sr.'s daughter believes the power shut down played a role
    • PG&E spokesman Jeff Smith said it has not been able to confirm the accuracy of the report
    • The power outage was part of a safety plan to prevent wildfires in the area
    • Two people have died from the wildfires: a man in his late 50s from cardiac arrest and Lois Arvickson, 89, after a fire swept through her mobile home park

    [...]
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cut-power.html

    The dude dies after the power was out for only 12 minutes? Holy crap... the guy should of had an UPS and generator.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  19. #349
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    How will Creek and PAC charge their Tesla's?

    Electric-Car Owners Hard Hit by Massive California Power Shutdown


    • Nearly a million Californians are now without power as the electric company deliberately shut it off this week, fearing high winds would spark wildfire.
    • The affected area in Northern California surrounds Fremont, home of Tesla, and a great many electric-car owners who can't charge their vehicles as usual.
    • Tesla's Elon Musk is swapping in battery Powerpacks and solar power for Superchargers in the region as fast as he can get permits, he claims on Twitter.

    [...]
    https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...wn-california/



    Charging stations on diesel generators.... They have thought of everything!
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  20. #350
    Major disappointment The_Tick's Avatar
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    We got power back this morning. We were down for 48 hours, and it was manageable. What we have learned is the following:

    1. We are purchasing a generator.
    2. We need more candles, battery powered lanterns, and candles.
    3. We need a few electric space heaters.

    We ended up having to throw out around $500 worth of groceries this morning...as I just didn't trust any of it. We didn't open the fridge for two days, but when the power came on this morning I threw my thermapen in there and it was 61 degrees (57 in the outside fridge). So everything went to the dump.

    This wont be the last power outage that we get through this PSPS program. I can understand why they are doing it though. Just in my community there were 3 downed lines due to wind/limb strikes. All 3 would have caused some sort of fire. But it is a huge PITA.

    We aren't going to go cheap on the generator as it will end up paying for itself by us not having to throw food out.

  21. #351
    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Tick View Post
    We got power back this morning. We were down for 48 hours, and it was manageable. What we have learned is the following:

    1. We are purchasing a generator.
    2. We need more candles, battery powered lanterns, and candles.
    3. We need a few electric space heaters.

    We ended up having to throw out around $500 worth of groceries this morning...as I just didn't trust any of it. We didn't open the fridge for two days, but when the power came on this morning I threw my thermapen in there and it was 61 degrees (57 in the outside fridge). So everything went to the dump.

    This wont be the last power outage that we get through this PSPS program. I can understand why they are doing it though. Just in my community there were 3 downed lines due to wind/limb strikes. All 3 would have caused some sort of fire. But it is a huge PITA.

    We aren't going to go cheap on the generator as it will end up paying for itself by us not having to throw food out.
    That sucks. I didn't think about the food going bad with the electricity down. With a generator, is there an easy way to have it hook into the whole house, or do you have to run extension cables to each appliance/whatever that needs power?
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  22. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    That sucks. I didn't think about the food going bad with the electricity down. With a generator, is there an easy way to have it hook into the whole house, or do you have to run extension cables to each appliance/whatever that needs power?
    Yeah, you can wire in what is called a transfer switch on the main. Of course, you may not want to power all the circuits in the house off the generator (e.g., you don't want to buy a big, fat generator). In that case you need to separate the circuits you want to run off the generator into a sub circuit and wire the transfer switch to just that box.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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  23. #353
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Yeah, you can wire in what is called a transfer switch on the main. Of course, you may not want to power all the circuits in the house off the generator (e.g., you don't want to buy a big, fat generator). In that case you need to separate the circuits you want to run off the generator into a sub circuit and wire the transfer switch to just that box.
    Couldn't you just turn of the breakers for the circuits you don't want to be powered by the generator?
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  24. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Couldn't you just turn of the breakers for the circuits you don't want to be powered by the generator?
    Yeah, you can do it manually. So when the power goes own you would flip the transfer switch to the generator, turn off the breakers you don't need powered up so you don't overload your generator's VA rating, and then fire up the generator. That is pretty much how I have my generator wired.

    I have a friend that put in a fancy natural gas generator for his house. He spent the money to have it fire up automatically if the power goes out in case he was traveling when it happened. It doesn't have the capacity to power the whole house so he had the electrician split his panel. Plus he put in a fancy transfer switch that would automatically switch over to the generator. He was traveling when we were hit by a huge storm which knocked out the power for a few days. The generator for some reason didn't automatically start so he ended up losing all his food anyway and his basement flooded because the sump pump didn't have power.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
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    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    That transfer switch also protects utility workers working on the lines connected to your house.

  26. #356
    Senior Member Katy Lied's Avatar
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    So whaddya think, North Californianos? Was the power outage worth the mitigation of the risk? I heard there were still some brutal fires this weekend.

  27. #357
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katy Lied View Post
    So whaddya think, North Californianos? Was the power outage worth the mitigation of the risk? I heard there were still some brutal fires this weekend.
    I am unaware of any significant fires in NorCal. So maybe it worked? For me the upshot (does anyone say that anymore?) was the following:

    1. Delayed my flu shot as my local purveyor of same lost all their vaccine when their refrigerators had no power due to the outage.
    2. I am going to buy a big-ass generator.
    3. And some more guns.
    4. And lots of ammo.
    5. Then I am going to figure out who else in my neighborhood has food storage.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  28. #358
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I am unaware of any significant fires in NorCal. So maybe it worked? For me the upshot (does anyone say that anymore?) was the following:

    1. Delayed my flu shot as my local purveyor of same lost all their vaccine when their refrigerators had no power due to the outage.
    2. I am going to buy a big-ass generator.
    3. And some more guns.
    4. And lots of ammo.
    5. Then I am going to figure out who else in my neighborhood has food storage.
    My wife sometimes asks me about upping our food storage. I tell her, "Honey, if it ever gets to the point that you actually need your two-year supply of food, the only storage that will matter is your gun/ammo stash." Maybe so you can kill yourself.

    She doesn't like that answer.
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    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  29. #359
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    My wife sometimes asks me about upping our food storage. I tell her, "Honey, if it ever gets to the point that you actually need your two-year supply of food, the only storage that will matter is your gun/ammo stash." Maybe so you can kill yourself.

    She doesn't like that answer.
    My wife doesn't like that joke, either. But she knows it is probably true.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  30. #360
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    Yeah, the bankrupt PG&E should give everyone a refund! Then raise the rates on everyone to pay for them.

    California Governor Calls for Refunds From PG&E After Blackouts

    California Gov. Gavin Newsom on Monday called for PG&E Corp. to issue refunds to consumers and small businesses after last week’s shutoff of power to about two million Californians intended to help avert potential wildfires.

    Many across Northern California who lost power for up to several days last week complained of financial losses, with some businesses saying they totaled tens of thousands of dollars.

    In letters to the company and top regulators, the governor asked PG&E Chief Executive Bill Johnson to provide those affected with an automatic credit or rebate of $100 per residential customer and $250 per small business. The Democrat said the rebates should be funded by shareholders of the bankrupt company, not ratepayers.

    Regulations don’t require PG&E to cover losses related to intentional blackouts, and the company previously has said it generally won’t do so, though it would consider claims case by case. PG&E officials didn’t immediately comment on the governor’s letter.
    [...]
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/califor...ts-11571093395
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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