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  • #1

    Investing, finally some facts

    backing up what inherently I knew to be true. The fact comes thanks to an article in the Wall St. journal titled, best stock mutual fund of the decade.

    The annualized return on the fund was 18%. The fund was extremely volitile with big time swings up and down.

    Now here is something interesting. The average shareholder in the fund lost 11% annually. How does that happen? Somehow investment advisors ripped off the public through commissions or something else, right? Nope, pretty sure this is a "NO LOAD" fund.

    It is a 3.7 billion dollar fund so the answer isn't "a few" stupid investors either, although blaming it on the public rather than Wall ST. is a lot closer to the truth.
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  • #2
    You're doing very well at making the case for index funds and completely cutting out money managers (including stockbrokers).

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    • #3
      Originally posted by jay santos View Post
      You're doing very well at making the case for index funds and completely cutting out money managers (including stockbrokers).
      NO I am not. I am making an excellent case for something else, which I know you are smart enough to figure out.

      I will bet you money the average investor did worse than the index fund they invested in did.

      Let me give you a hint: The money manager annualized 18% a year, that is a hell of a lot better than any stock index fun out there.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by byu71 View Post
        NO I am not. I am making an excellent case for something else, which I know you are smart enough to figure out.

        I will bet you money the average investor did worse than the index fund they invested in did.

        Let me give you a hint: The money manager annualized 18% a year, that is a hell of a lot better than any stock index fun out there.
        OK, I admit I read your post wrong. Well if you're smart enough to choose the right manager, good luck. I'd like to see how that money manager did the previous ten years. And how he'll do the next ten. You take 100 random funds over a certain time period and a normal distribution curve, and a few are going to do very well.

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        • #5
          Just shows that a lot of investors are stupid and let fear and greed get the best of them. Smart investors are in for the long term.
          "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
          "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
          "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
          GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by byu71 View Post
            backing up what inherently I knew to be true. The fact comes thanks to an article in the Wall St. journal titled, best stock mutual fund of the decade.

            The annualized return on the fund was 18%. The fund was extremely volitile with big time swings up and down.

            Now here is something interesting. The average shareholder in the fund lost 11% annually. How does that happen? Somehow investment advisors ripped off the public through commissions or something else, right? Nope, pretty sure this is a "NO LOAD" fund.

            It is a 3.7 billion dollar fund so the answer isn't "a few" stupid investors either, although blaming it on the public rather than Wall ST. is a lot closer to the truth.
            I'm presuming your point is that people panicked when the market was taking a nosedive and took their money out at bad times -- that and people were desperate for cash during the worst of the times (late 08, 2009) and raided the fund.
            Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
              Just shows that a lot of investors are stupid and let fear and greed get the best of them. Smart investors are in for the long term.
              I know you are a really smart guy, but that was pretty easy to figure out wasn't it and didn't take a lot of your brain power to do it.

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              • #8
                I went to a mid career/preretirement seminar a few months ago. The presentor made the statement that if you were out of the market on a specifice 9 or 10 days in the last 15 yrs or something like that, you would have missed something like 25% of the gains. He also the reverse is true. I don't know he was correct or not, '71 would know much better than I. The presentor's main point was don't try and time the market - you will lose

                I may be small, but I'm slow.

                A veteran - whether active duty, retired, or national guard or reserve is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to, "The United States of America ", for an amount of "up to and including my life - it's an honor."

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                • #9
                  I bought some utility stocks a long time ago and only one of them has really done anything for me. I've ended up with a pretty small return based mostly on dividends. I finally decided to sell most of it once it was at a breakeven point cost-wise. I bought some Beyond Meat stock early last week since this money is more to play with and I can't say that I'm disappointed. So far I'm up about 15% in only 5-6 days
                  "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                  • #10
                    I hadn't heard of Nikola until this week when it turns out their Chairman/Founder (who is also a UVU dropout and probably a devout Mormon) is under investigation by the SEC for misleading investors. Turns out, Nikola had an IPO last year and had a market cap of around $20b before plummeting down to around $11b. I looked at their latest quarterly filing and they have under $100K of revenues...and almost all of that was the company putting solar panels on the Chairman's house...for which is seems he hasn't fully paid for yet

                    Looking at their mgmt team, they are almost all BYU grads. Pretty crazy though. Maybe they actually have some technology that excites people enough to invest but it seems more like a guy that is using charisma to create a fake Tesla and pocket a bunch of money in the process.
                    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                      I hadn't heard of Nikola until this week when it turns out their Chairman/Founder (who is also a UVU dropout and probably a devout Mormon) is under investigation by the SEC for misleading investors. Turns out, Nikola had an IPO last year and had a market cap of around $20b before plummeting down to around $11b. I looked at their latest quarterly filing and they have under $100K of revenues...and almost all of that was the company putting solar panels on the Chairman's house...for which is seems he hasn't fully paid for yet

                      Looking at their mgmt team, they are almost all BYU grads. Pretty crazy though. Maybe they actually have some technology that excites people enough to invest but it seems more like a guy that is using charisma to create a fake Tesla and pocket a bunch of money in the process.
                      Oh yeah, it is a fascinating story. The entire company is based on sexy-sounding electric vehicle ideas, but they still have not developed a single product. A short-selling research firm recently published an expose describing numerous lies and problems with the company. For example, they published a video of one of their trucks driving down a road. The firm claimed it was staged and the truck was rolling via gravity and didn't even have an engine. Nikola admitted it was true. Trevor Milton stepped down yesterday morning. Now there are accusations of sexual assault, etc.

                      Reminds me of Theranos.
                      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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                      • #12
                        makes me sad that 71 doesn't post here anymore.
                        I'm like LeBron James.
                        -mpfunk

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                          I hadn't heard of Nikola until this week when it turns out their Chairman/Founder (who is also a UVU dropout and probably a devout Mormon) is under investigation by the SEC for misleading investors. Turns out, Nikola had an IPO last year and had a market cap of around $20b before plummeting down to around $11b. I looked at their latest quarterly filing and they have under $100K of revenues...and almost all of that was the company putting solar panels on the Chairman's house...for which is seems he hasn't fully paid for yet

                          Looking at their mgmt team, they are almost all BYU grads. Pretty crazy though. Maybe they actually have some technology that excites people enough to invest but it seems more like a guy that is using charisma to create a fake Tesla and pocket a bunch of money in the process.
                          Holy cow... how does a guy with one semester of UVU become chairman/founder of a multibillion dollar company? Crazy.

                          He dropped out of college after one semester at Utah Valley State University to pursue a career in sales and marketing.
                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Milton

                          So I guess the solar panels are going on this home...

                          In November 2019, the Los Angeles Times reported that he had bought a 2,000-acre Utah ranch with a 16,800 square foot riverside mansion for $32.5 million. The purchase set a new record price paid for a home in the state.
                          Nice...

                          https://www.mansionglobal.com/articl...ion-buy-133167
                          "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                          "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                          "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                          GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
                            Holy cow... how does a guy with one semester of UVU become chairman/founder of a multibillion dollar company? Crazy.


                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Milton

                            So I guess the solar panels are going on this home...



                            Nice...

                            https://www.mansionglobal.com/articl...ion-buy-133167
                            Flying under the radar, I see.

                            Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
                            "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
                            - Goatnapper'96

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by smokymountainrain View Post
                              makes me sad that 71 doesn't post here anymore.
                              That was my first thought as well.

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