St George Marathon

[SteelBlue]

The ONE thing I wanted to do was to negative split this. There's no excuse not to--most of the drop is in the second half of the race.

You've run St George enough to know that this statement is b.s.. That downhill is punishing, especially if you go out too fast. Last year I hit that downhill at 14 in a near panic, having gotten into trouble way early. While it was certainly easier than uphill, I remember feeling like I was running in mud downhill. No negative split for SB.

[Solon]

You've run St George enough to know that this statement is b.s.. That downhill is punishing, especially if you go out too fast. Last year I hit that downhill at 14 in a near panic, having gotten into trouble way early. While it was certainly easier than uphill, I remember feeling like I was running in mud downhill. No negative split for SB.

I'm with steelblue. Total BS. The hill at 18 is, in some ways, tougher than Veyo. Esp. with the criss-crossing from one side of the road to the other so that cars can get onto the Parkway. I thought that was a really tough slog.

[Pheidippides]

I'm with steelblue. Total BS. The hill at 18 is, in some ways, tougher than Veyo. Esp. with the criss-crossing from one side of the road to the other so that cars can get onto the Parkway. I thought that was a really tough slog.

I agree, and my HR stats bear it out too. The hill at 18 was much more mentally taxing. And by mile 23 I was dreading the crazy downhills more than the uphills (thankfully they were over by then). A negative split is no given on that course.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

As I’ve had a few days to process things, as well as reading everyone else’s accounts, I’ve had a couple of thoughts.

First of all, after comparing Nikuman and ER’s accounts, this is what I love and hate about sports. Some days it all falls into place, most days it doesn’t. And a few times the wheels come totally off. As a devout 20 year Tour de France fan, you see this manifested year in and year out. Whether you get tangled into a 20 rider crash or get gapped on your way into Gap, your year’s worth of training and sacrifice can disappear in a flash. Being an Olympic 100 meter sprinter has to be one of the most anxiety inducing sport of them all. You’ve got 10 seconds to put 4 years on the line. So ER, in answer to your question on if “marathons feel like that did?” Of course they do. Hell, Pheidippides died when he got to Athens.

This might sound like some fluffy “just be happy you have working legs, ER” piece, but it’s not. In fact, the more time goes by, the more pissed off I get about Saturday. Before I run with this vent, let me say that I’m satisfied with my experience, 4:10 is by no means a great time but it was about as good as a time that I was going to make. I finished my last two 20 milers right at the 3:00 mark and I was told to expect to add about another 30 secs to my pace for St. George since it’s a harder course. That’s almost exactly how it played out. I definitely appreciate the kind and positive words that you guys have expressed.

Now for the rant. I was checking out the RunPix site on Sunday and found the “Where Were You” graphic extremely disheartening. When my division winner was crossing the finish line, I was leisurely walking through the feed station at Mile 15. 15. Moving half the speed as the winner. Half.

When I started racing road bikes back in the day, it just came naturally to me. I liked it and I was pretty good at it. And had some results that showed some promise. Here I am a year into running. I run three times a week averaging from 20-30 miles in weekly total. The one change that I’ve noticed is the lack of change. In the year of running, I haven’t lost a single pound (I’m 6’6” and 195, so this isn’t all that significant), my legs aren’t any more defined than they were last summer, and when I run the Snow Canyon Half next month, I think it will confirm that I’m only marginally faster, if at all. Last April I participated in a little Las Vegas Corporate Challenge bike race at the last minute. It was only 14 miles but I took placed 3rd in my age group. Before that afternoon, I hadn’t ridden my bike since October.

I find this really depressing. According to the RunPix, 69% of my division finished ahead of me. 56% of all men. I’m not looking to ever run a 2:30 marathon but it’s getting really difficult to accept that the endurance abilities that I have on a bike, don’t carry over to running, nearly as evenly as I expected. Maybe I’m just not giving these winners enough credit. Is it a fair comparison as imagining lining up with a Bradley Wiggins for a weekend time trial? If that’s the case, than that’s easier to accept, but it seemed like all of the top finishers were locals. Even having said that and excluding those guys in my comparison, just to qualify to register for the Boston Marathon, I would have to run a 3:10.

It seems like if I’m to continue to run and more importantly, continue to want to run, I’m going to have to take on more of a Solon attitude and just run to run. Still run with my Garmin and still strive to improvement, but I think the idea of shaving an hour off of my time is unreasonable. It’s like that paragraph in “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” about climbing mountains. The kind of mentality that just finishing a marathon is achievement enough. Like poor Pheidippides in legend muttered with his last breath, “We win.”

One last thing for those keeping score: I passed 254 and 66 passed me. So didn’t finish nearly as strong as most of you. I also passed two men wearing their garments. Fortunately, this seems to be more popular among the half marathoners.

[Pheidippides]

Now for the rant. I was checking out the RunPix site on Sunday and found the “Where Were You” graphic extremely disheartening. When my division winner was crossing the finish line, I was leisurely walking through the feed station at Mile 15. 15. Moving half the speed as the winner. Half.

When I started racing road bikes back in the day, it just came naturally to me. I liked it and I was pretty good at it. And had some results that showed some promise. Here I am a year into running. I run three times a week averaging from 20-30 miles in weekly total. The one change that I’ve noticed is the lack of change. In the year of running, I haven’t lost a single pound (I’m 6’6” and 195, so this isn’t all that significant), my legs aren’t any more defined than they were last summer, and when I run the Snow Canyon Half next month, I think it will confirm that I’m only marginally faster, if at all. Last April I participated in a little Las Vegas Corporate Challenge bike race at the last minute. It was only 14 miles but I took placed 3rd in my age group. Before that afternoon, I hadn’t ridden my bike since October.

I find this really depressing. According to the RunPix, 69% of my division finished ahead of me. 56% of all men. I’m not looking to ever run a 2:30 marathon but it’s getting really difficult to accept that the endurance abilities that I have on a bike, don’t carry over to running, nearly as evenly as I expected. Maybe I’m just not giving these winners enough credit. Is it a fair comparison as imagining lining up with a Bradley Wiggins for a weekend time trial? If that’s the case, than that’s easier to accept, but it seemed like all of the top finishers were locals. Even having said that and excluding those guys in my comparison, just to qualify to register for the Boston Marathon, I would have to run a 3:10.

It seems like if I’m to continue to run and more importantly, continue to want to run, I’m going to have to take on more of a Solon attitude and just run to run. Still run with my Garmin and still strive to improvement, but I think the idea of shaving an hour off of my time is unreasonable. It’s like that paragraph in “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” about climbing mountains. The kind of mentality that just finishing a marathon is achievement enough. Like poor Pheidippides in legend muttered with his last breath, “We win.”

I've also spent the last couple of days thinking about the race, and I have a couple of thoughts that relate to yours (I know I'm probably saying too much at this point). When I first got into cycling, I'd already run three marathons and figured it couldn't be that difficult. I was way wrong - cycling is a completely different sport, and while I had the cardio to do it I didn't have the legs, technique or knowledge to be good at it. There are still several people on this board that can absolutely destroy me on the bike in terms of both distance and speed. Heck, in my last bike race, I got absolutely demolished by a guy who was pushing 60.

The point is that we're dealing with two different sports. Lance Armstrong was/is a great cyclist (with or without PEDs) but he's only a fair marathoner when it comes to the elites. Probably little better than my brother, actually. And while both have huge endurance components, you can't expect them to translate. I did, to my detriment.

As for the rest, you should know that your first marathon time was faster than my first one by four seconds. I entered my first marathon thinking I could run a 3:30 based on some pace calculator. Lol. I was soooooo delusional. Over the past few races I've stubbornly held to the same old me until I had a breakthrough this time.

After this race I'm convinced I can run a BQ. Not tomorrow, not this time. Maybe in 2014. But I've dropped over 40 minutes off of my time, and only need to drop another 22. I'm not special. I'm just obsessed. I'm convinced in the ability to make massive jumps through increased training.

At the same time I have a great respect for Solon and his lone stroller long run training plan, chillin' down the road and pounding ice cream at the end. That's just as awesome to me (and much less painful the next day). If that's your goal, that's great, and I think it's awesome. If you want to try to drop time and do even better, that's awesome too. Either way is fine, but I'm convinced that the second is an attainable thing for most people.

[Solon]

I've also spent the last couple of days thinking about the race, and I have a couple of thoughts that relate to yours (I know I'm probably saying too much at this point). When I first got into cycling, I'd already run three marathons and figured it couldn't be that difficult. I was way wrong - cycling is a completely different sport, and while I had the cardio to do it I didn't have the legs, technique or knowledge to be good at it. There are still several people on this board that can absolutely destroy me on the bike in terms of both distance and speed. Heck, in my last bike race, I got absolutely demolished by a guy who was pushing 60.

The point is that we're dealing with two different sports. Lance Armstrong was/is a great cyclist (with or without PEDs) but he's only a fair marathoner when it comes to the elites. Probably little better than my brother, actually. And while both have huge endurance components, you can't expect them to translate. I did, to my detriment.

As for the rest, you should know that your first marathon time was faster than my first one by four seconds. I entered my first marathon thinking I could run a 3:30 based on some pace calculator. Lol. I was soooooo delusional. Over the past few races I've stubbornly held to the same old me until I had a breakthrough this time.

After this race I'm convinced I can run a BQ. Not tomorrow, not this time. Maybe in 2014. But I've dropped over 40 minutes off of my time, and only need to drop another 22. I'm not special. I'm just obsessed. I'm convinced in the ability to make massive jumps through increased training.

At the same time I have a great respect for Solon and his lone stroller long run training plan, chillin' down the road and pounding ice cream at the end. That's just as awesome to me (and much less painful the next day). If that's your goal, that's great, and I think it's awesome. If you want to try to drop time and do even better, that's awesome too. Either way is fine, but I'm convinced that the second is an attainable thing for most people.

I believe that you can do a lot with training, but I also believe with running that we're pretty limited by talent / genes.

I knew the guy who won this year when he was a HS athlete. He was by no means elite (didn't start on the football team as a WR) and never ran competitively. He just has it. It takes a lot of training, but also a lot of talent.

I respect you guys going for specific times, but feel bad that such a great day for running can bring such discouragement - barring serious injury. I love the competitive spirit, and wish all of you the best in gleaning satisfaction from the journey as well as the results.

(btw, ER exaggerated. I ran a lot of miles this summer before some health problems sidelined me for the entire month of september; but - yeah - I only did a couple of long-runs over 13: a 15-miler and a 17-miler pushing my baby).

[BigPiney]

Dwight - the only way to get faster is to run faster. It sucks and I don't really do it, but it is the truth. You want to get faster? Incorporate speed work into your training. Run some freaking intervals and hurt.

I know how you feel, I have been at the same speed or a bit slower for a long time, but I am just not willing to put in the effort to get faster at this point. My wife on the other hand is now as fast as I am, because of intervals. You can do it, but it takes work.

[ERCougar]

What niku said.
I wouldn't sell yourself short on how much you can improve. I stumbled my way through St G 5 years ago in 5 hours before I decided I wanted to see what I could do. Since then, I've run three days a week and cycled the other days, and cut a bunch of time off all of my distances. I get a kick out of the challenge. It's fun for me.
But, also what Solon said. I don't know how long you'll stay running without genuinely enjoying it. It's an acquired taste, but worth it. I genuinely enjoy the sensation of movement, the feeling I have during and after running, and just how it changes me. I joked in another thread about being too American to enjoy the Zen of running, but truth is, that's what keeps me coming back. That's why I don't listen to music.

But no, I don't think running for 26.2 miles is fun.

[Pheidippides]

What niku said.
I wouldn't sell yourself short on how much you can improve. I stumbled my way through St G 5 years ago in 5 hours before I decided I wanted to see what I could do. Since then, I've run three days a week and cycled the other days, and cut a bunch of time off all of my distances. I get a kick out of the challenge. It's fun for me.
But, also what Solon said. I don't know how long you'll stay running without genuinely enjoying it. It's an acquired taste, but worth it. I genuinely enjoy the sensation of movement, the feeling I have during and after running, and just how it changes me. I joked in another thread about being too American to enjoy the Zen of running, but truth is, that's what keeps me coming back. That's why I don't listen to music.

But no, I don't think running for 26.2 miles is fun.

Very true. I have a spiritual connection to running which is what keeps me coming back. Every time I got up at three in the freaking morning for a other long run this summer, was my motivation.

Solon is right that we have a cap, and people like my brother make me jealous. He ran about a minute faster than I just did in his first - only he had light training and I worked my guts out. He's about to run another and I'm pretty sure he'll qualify for Boston easily. We both work hard, but he's just better.

BigPiney is also right. You have to run fast to be fast. And for the marathon your have to run a lot too. Doing nine miles of speed work isn't fun in isolation. Running six days a week, cycling on one of those days, lifting weights three times a week and doing Yoga, all for a silly time goal, isn't necessarily fun. Running three weekends in a row of 20+ miles isn't easy. But for me it was all worth it on Saturday and I thought it was great fun. For others it may not be. It depends on how crazy you are. I just got done setting up my next training cycle, and its apparent I am lots of crazy.

[Pheidippides]

Photos are up. Mine are hilariously bad. Bad even by race photo standards.

[Solon]

Notices for 2014 just went out.

Who's in (besides me)?

[bluegoose]

Notices for 2014 just went out.

Who's in (besides me)?

My wife and several of her girlfriends are in. I think its about her 5th or 6th time going. Its a great race. Have fun.