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Thread: Control of the Internet

  1. #1

    Default Control of the Internet

    Who or what controls the Internet may be the biggest legal and political issue our society faces over the next few years:

    It's here: FCC adopts net neutrality (lite)

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...ality-lite.ars

    Comcast-NBC Merger: The Hulu Rules

    http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/18/com...he-hulu-rules/

    No Easy Fixes as Internet Runs Out of Addresses

    http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/...net-addresses/

    California Bill Criminalizing Online Impersonations In Effect Starting Today

    http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/01/cal...tarting-today/

  2. #2
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    With the exhaustion of IPv4 addresses maybe we will finally get serious about moving to use IPv6. The spec for IPv6 has been around for at least 12 years or so.

    As for net neutrality and the increasing demand for more bandwidth because of mainly video streaming I think ISPs may be pushed to consider just changing their pricing model to metered internet instead. Transfer caps are currently being debated (and re-debated) in Canada. Services like Netflix are giving the ISPs the (lame) excuse to change their pricing model but Netflix is calling their bluff:

    "The ostensible, theoretical reason behind UBB is to conserve capacity, but that issue is very questionable," noted the ISP's CEO Rocky Gaudrault on TekSavvy's news page. "One certain result though, is that Bell will make much more profit on its Internet service, and discourage Canadians from watching TV and movies on the internet instead of CTV, which Bell now owns."

    Given these dramatic changes, and the fact that ISPs around the world have made clear they wouldn't mind implementing similar schemes, it's no wonder that high-bandwidth businesses are fighting back. Last week, for instance, Netflix started publishing graphs of ISP performance in both the US and Canada, and it plans to update them monthly.

    Netflix is also stepping up the war of words against ISPs who try to implement low caps and high overage fees:

    "Wired ISPs have large fixed costs of building and maintaining their last mile network of residential cable and fiber. The ISPs' costs, however, to deliver a marginal gigabyte, which is about an hour of viewing, from one of our regional interchange points over their last mile wired network to the consumer is less than a penny, and falling, so there is no reason that pay-per-gigabyte is economically necessary. Moreover, at $1 per gigabyte over wired networks, it would be grossly overpriced."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    With the exhaustion of IPv4 addresses maybe we will finally get serious about moving to use IPv6. The spec for IPv6 has been around for at least 12 years or so.

    As for net neutrality and the increasing demand for more bandwidth because of mainly video streaming I think ISPs may be pushed to consider just changing their pricing model to metered internet instead. Transfer caps are currently being debated (and re-debated) in Canada. Services like Netflix are giving the ISPs the (lame) excuse to change their pricing model but Netflix is calling their bluff:
    It's unfathomable what large corporations are trying to do, backed by proposed legislation from politicians who have media conglomerates lining their pockets. At some point the entire legislative and legal model that regulates how we access information and entertainment has to change and keep pace with the technology.

    Another frightening but real aspect of these issue is that the Internet is becoming less and less anonymous, especially with social networking acting as a defacto funnel to the Web and the deposits of information found on servers the world over. I read an article citing a study recently (can't find the link right now) that suggested more people access Facebook in a day, using it as search for information tool than they access and use Google. Imagine all of your search habits and results being tied directly to your Facebook profile. It's a marketers dream come true ... a dream that's already, in part, reality.
    Last edited by tooblue; 02-04-2011 at 10:48 AM.

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    http://qz.com/165238/the-biggest-lan...on-february-4/

    Massive domain changes tomorrow. This is a well-written article that'll take you about 10 minutes to read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    http://qz.com/165238/the-biggest-lan...on-february-4/

    Massive domain changes tomorrow. This is a well-written article that'll take you about 10 minutes to read.
    Cool… I am going to register "UncleTed.WTF".
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
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    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Cool… I am going to register "UncleTed.WTF".
    Be sure to lock down www.UncleTed.sucks
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    Senior Member Katy Lied's Avatar
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    How can 3 men, none of them publicly elected officials, cancel net neutrality?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katy Lied View Post
    How can 3 men, none of them publicly elected officials, cancel net neutrality?
    Beware the power of the Bureaucrat!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katy Lied View Post
    How can 3 men, none of them publicly elected officials, cancel net neutrality?
    The same way net neutrality was instituted in the first place.

    February 26, 2015 – FCC passes the Title II Net Neutrality Rules. “In a 3–2 party-line vote, the FCC passes open internet rules applying to both wired and wireless internet connections grounded in Title II authority
    December 14, 2017 – The FCC votes 3 to 2 in favor of reversing Title II regulations
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    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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    Good work, Pai.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paperback Writer View Post
    The same way net neutrality was instituted in the first place.

    February 26, 2015 – FCC passes the Title II Net Neutrality Rules. “In a 3–2 party-line vote, the FCC passes open internet rules applying to both wired and wireless internet connections grounded in Title II authority
    December 14, 2017 – The FCC votes 3 to 2 in favor of reversing Title II regulations
    This is becoming the direction of our democracy. It is becoming like a rivalry in sports. Whatever the opponent does our side will seek to undo when we win the rivalry game. Net Neutrality = the goal posts at Ravsten Stadium.

    As a rural facilities based and owned ISP provider I do think that the content providers should participate in the costs of extending and improving the network. But in the end I tend to believe the same things that happened before network neutrality were what happened while we had network neutrality and will be the same things that happen now that network neutrality is reversed.
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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    I used to be a net neutrality disciple but I am ambivalent at this point. It seems like some of the arguments against this recent action are grossly overblown.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I used to be a net neutrality disciple but I am ambivalent at this point. It seems like some of the arguments against this recent action are grossly overblown.
    Same.

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    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I used to be a net neutrality disciple but I am ambivalent at this point. It seems like some of the arguments against this recent action are grossly overblown.
    I really believe in most markets there is adequate competition to prevent the facility based ISP from slowing content. It is a solution in search of a problem. Even Pai's rules demand that network operations be made public. Slowing Netflix content for the benefit of your Comcast movie cache business makes no sense to me from a business perspective, but I suppose I could be wrong. Further, the real money in the internet is in browsing history and this puts the ISP on equal ground with the silicon valley content giants wrt that valuable info.

    I do this for a living and I am convinced this is much ado about nothing.

    Let me be clear there were aspects of President Obama's administration that slowed down business investment and facility deployment in the telecom sector. I think most sane people realize he was a fairly liberal ideologue. IMO, Net Neutrality was an indicator of that. A solution to an imagined problem that fired up wanker liberals to make them feel like they were living in the glory days of freedom rock, so turn it up man! But there were many reasons that investment under the Obama Presidency was slow, part of which was just the lingering economic malaise that while Obama might not have helped he certainly wasn't culpable in creating. Part was also how his administration ran things. However, to take that stew and attempt to pin the blame on net neutrality to justify reversing it is dumb. But that is what we are becoming as a people. All too many of us are dumb enough to believe it really was about freedom rock man and then all too many are dumb enough to believe freedom rock man is why google fiber decided to discontinue its fiber to the prem deployments.
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
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    I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
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    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    I really believe in most markets there is adequate competition to prevent the facility based ISP from slowing content. It is a solution in search of a problem. Even Pai's rules demand that network operations be made public. Slowing Netflix content for the benefit of your Comcast movie cache business makes no sense to me from a business perspective, but I suppose I could be wrong. Further, the real money in the internet is in browsing history and this puts the ISP on equal ground with the silicon valley content giants wrt that valuable info.

    I do this for a living and I am convinced this is much ado about nothing.

    Let me be clear there were aspects of President Obama's administration that slowed down business investment and facility deployment in the telecom sector. I think most sane people realize he was a fairly liberal ideologue. IMO, Net Neutrality was an indicator of that. A solution to an imagined problem that fired up wanker liberals to make them feel like they were living in the glory days of freedom rock, so turn it up man! But there were many reasons that investment under the Obama Presidency was slow, part of which was just the lingering economic malaise that while Obama might not have helped he certainly wasn't culpable in creating. Part was also how his administration ran things. However, to take that stew and attempt to pin the blame on net neutrality to justify reversing it is dumb. But that is what we are becoming as a people. All too many of us are dumb enough to believe it really was about freedom rock man and then all too many are dumb enough to believe freedom rock man is why google fiber decided to discontinue its fiber to the prem deployments.
    Good gawd I am starting to sound like Randy Knight.
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
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    I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I used to be a net neutrality disciple but I am ambivalent at this point. It seems like some of the arguments against this recent action are grossly overblown.
    Yeah, I like how the ISPs package up the internet into little content packages...



    https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/22/...-ajit-pai-plan


    But I don't see a package with CS?!?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Yeah, I like how the ISPs package up the internet into little content packages...



    https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/22/...-ajit-pai-plan


    But I don't see a package with CS?!?
    You didn't even read that link, did you? It actually explains how what you are saying is going to happen is not what is happening in Portugal (the source of the image you linked).

    This is why bots will never fully replace human thinking.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    You didn't even read that link, did you? It actually explains how what you are saying is going to happen is not what is happening in Portugal (the source of the image you linked).

    This is why bots will never fully replace human thinking.
    Ah, that is too bad... I already picked out the hollywood and music packages for mine.

    If the ISPs did do something like that I would imagine that Onion Routing would get very popular (and the NSA would be mad).
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  20. #20
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    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Yeah, I like how the ISPs package up the internet into little content packages...



    https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/22/...-ajit-pai-plan


    But I don't see a package with CS?!?
    The big news is that napster's back.
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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Uncle Ted, I recognize that you are probably the wrong person to ask, but what is the libertarian spin on this whole thing? For or against net neutrality?
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    While I agree with some of this, there was talk of ISPs creating tiers, etc. back then. Perhaps that is why net neutrality came about in the first place. Perhaps rolling back the regulations will actually result in the thing that the regulations were meant, in some part, to prevent. Perhaps.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Uncle Ted, I recognize that you are probably the wrong person to ask, but what is the libertarian spin on this whole thing? For or against net neutrality?
    As an libertarian I am against net neutrality. Let the market dictate the rules of the internet as long as it is not just Microsoft or Google dictating the rules. (No monolopy crap going on.)

    As an user of the internet I don't want anyone messing with my bits (slowing them down or blocking them) or even looking at them (I am looking at you, NSA). Therefore, in that respect I am for it.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    The big news is that napster's back.
    And grooveshark.
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    I don't see the competition in the marketplace that Goat refers to. In my neighborhood, there are only two companies with lines in the ground:

    • CenturyLink, which offers DSL and wants to charge me $45 a month for 10Mbps. Yuck.
    • Comcast, where I currently get about 240 Mbps right now for $90 a month. This is pretty good as far as residential internet goes but Comcast has got to be one of the most evil corporations in the country and I have no confidence that they won't somehow screw me over some day.


    The only choice beyond those two is wireless. Yippee. The satellite ISPs with their 15Mbps offerings are a total joke.

    I can't get Google Fiber no matter what I'm willing to pay per month.
    I can't get CenturyLink Fiber no matter what I'm willing to pay per month.

    I can't get any other service because ISPs have local monopolies because cities don't want every guy with a backhoe to go digging up the streets to lay down their own fiber.

    So the fact that local monopolies exist, and the fact that telcos in general and Comcast in particular are known to be evil bastards, makes me favor the net neutrality rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
    I don't see the competition in the marketplace that Goat refers to. In my neighborhood, there are only two companies with lines in the ground:

    • CenturyLink, which offers DSL and wants to charge me $45 a month for 10Mbps. Yuck.
    • Comcast, where I currently get about 240 Mbps right now for $90 a month. This is pretty good as far as residential internet goes but Comcast has got to be one of the most evil corporations in the country and I have no confidence that they won't somehow screw me over some day.


    The only choice beyond those two is wireless. Yippee. The satellite ISPs with their 15Mbps offerings are a total joke.

    I can't get Google Fiber no matter what I'm willing to pay per month.
    I can't get CenturyLink Fiber no matter what I'm willing to pay per month.

    I can't get any other service because ISPs have local monopolies because cities don't want every guy with a backhoe to go digging up the streets to lay down their own fiber.

    So the fact that local monopolies exist, and the fact that telcos in general and Comcast in particular are known to be evil bastards, makes me favor the net neutrality rules.
    This is basically how I feel. Obviously some net neutrality proponents overstate the imminent threat we are under, but at the same time, you can't pretend that this industry currently operates like a free market for the vast majority of Americans. My options are almost exactly the same as BFM's; there is one provider who can give me more than 10Mbps. In that environment, I would prefer to either keep net neutrality or break Comcast and Charter into 8 smaller companies and have them all go at it.

  28. #28

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    The FCC and Ajit Pai suck at pr.


    The FCC Is Blocking a Law Enforcement Investigation Into Net Neutrality Comment Fraud
    In addition, the agency told me there was nothing it could do after someone hijacked my identity to claim I falsely supported killing net neutrality protections.



    The FCC is blocking a law enforcement investigation into fraudulent comments designed to provide bogus support for the agency’s looming net neutrality repeal. New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman recently announced his office has been conducting an investigation into who submitted millions of fraudulent comments (some using the identities of dead people) during the public comment period.

    The FCC is already facing a lawsuit alleging the agency ignored FOIA requests pertaining to these fake comments. The agency similarly told me there was nothing it could do after someone hijacked my identity to claim I falsely supported killing net neutrality protections.

    Detailed analysis of the record 22 million comments filed with the agency indicate the majority of the public overwhelmingly supports keeping the rules intact. But several analysts also found that some group or individual tried to counter this genuine opposition with fake support for the plan. Schneiderman's office believes these comments were filed by a bot that pulled identities from a compromised database of some kind.

    According to Schneiderman, his office made nine attempts over a period of five months to obtain server logs, API key details, or other information that could aid his office’s investigation into the identity theft. But in a public letter to FCC boss Ajit Pai, Schneiderman noted that the agency simply refused to aid the investigation in any capacity whatsoever.

    “We all have a powerful reason to hold accountable those who would steal Americans’ identities and assault the public’s right to be heard in government rulemaking,” argued Schneiderman. “If law enforcement can’t investigate and (where appropriate) prosecute when it happens on this scale, the door is open for it to happen again and again.”

    Last week, the FCC doubled down on its refusal to cooperate in a more formal response to the AG.

    In a letter to the AG’s office by FCC General Counsel Thomas Johnson, the agency lawyer again makes it clear the FCC has no interest in helping law enforcement get to the bottom of whoever is behind the farmed support for its repeal. Throughout the letter, Johnson repeatedly tries to imply that the wholesale fraud that occurred is inconsequential.
    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...urce=mbtwitter
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    I couldn't watch more than a minute. What a stupid way to try to explain net neutrality.
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