The "did you know this streams on Netflix?" thread

[Jeff Lebowski]

**Spoilers here if you haven't finished watching Making a Murderer**

I read the transcript of the Dassey interview (2nd one after O'Kelly turned him over). They kept asking him if Steven removed the cable so it doesn't surprise me that he said that he raised the hood to do something. Also, there was in fact a lot of detail in his description, but the details kept changing, quite dramatically about certain things. And it was substantially different from what he said the first time around. Given the entirety of the story and the confession, there is little physical evidence corroborating the kid's confession.

I think Avery is guilty but I have doubts about the kid. In any case, the manner in which the case was prosecuted was a travesty.

[jay santos]

Thanks for the recommendation of Making a Murderer, guys, that was amazing. We binge watched it over the weekend. I have a lot of questions/comments.

Spoiler for spoilers:

1. At the end of one of the middle episodes, Colborn was on the stand talking about calling in that license plate number. That a major cliff hanger, but they didn't go back to it at the beginning of the next episode or ever again. I almost wondered if I skipped an episode. Why didn't they go into that more?? That was a HUGE point.
2. I loved the show and was very entertained, but after reading more on the case after finishing, I’m kind of disappointed in the documentary makers for manipulating the audience so much by ignoring so many key details that made Avery look more detail.
3. Why was there so much of the victim’s blood in the car? If Avery is guilty, which I’m assuming he is now after reading more details, that doesn’t make sense.
4. Did anyone take lie detector tests or was anyone asked to? Avery, the kid, the brother, the ex-boyfriend, etc.
5. They touched on the phone calls and the deleted voice mail messages, but no theories were ever given. Was the brother or ex-bf ever confronted on why they deleted voice mail and what the voice mail was that they deleted?
6. I didn’t realize the bullet was proven to come from Avery’s gun. That’s pretty condemning, as I could believe the conspiracy was 2-3 wide, but I don’t believe the female DNA scientist would be in on the conspiracy. I think she screwed up contaminating the sample, but I believed her story that this is not the kind of contamination that would confuse the results.

[Sullyute]

I liked the first season and am excited for the start of the second.

I have watched about 5 episodes of the first season of the Americans. Meh. Pretty predictable so far. Does it get better in the latter half or should I cut my losses now?

[Color Me Badd Fan]

**Spoilers here if you haven't finished watching Making a Murderer**


Pajiba page posted on 12/31/15 with a list of evidence that wasn't included in the documentary

— In the months leading up to Halbach’s disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times and always specifically requested Halbach to come out and take the photos.

— Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn’t want to go out to Avery’s trailer anymore, because once when she came out, Avery was waiting for her wearing only a towel (this was excluded for being too inflammatory). Avery clearly had an obsession with Halbach.

— On the day that Halbach went missing, Avery had called her three times, twice from a *67 number to hide his identity.

— Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons like the ones Dassey described holding Halbach only three weeks before (Avery said he’s purchased them for use with his girlfriend, Jodi, with whom he’d had a tumultuous relationship — at one point, he was ordered by police to stay away from her for three days).

— Here’s the piece of evidence that was presented at trial but not in the series that I find most convincing: In Dassey’s illegally obtained statement, Dassey stated that he helped Avery moved the RAV4 into the junkyard and that Avery had lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Even if you believe that the blood in Halbach’s car was planted by the cops (as I do), there was also non-blood DNA evidence on the hood latch. I don’t believe the police would plant — or know to plant — that evidence.

— Teresa's camera and palm pilot were found in Avery's burn barrel.

— In this phone conversation (transcript link) with his mother (which is not entirely included in the docuseries), Brendan told his mother that he did it, that Steven made him do it, and that Steven had touched him (and others) inappropriately in the past.
Mom: What all happened, what are you talking about?
Brendan: About what Me & Steven did that day,
Mom: What about it?
Brendan: Well, Mike & Mark & Matt came up one day and took another interview with me and said because they think I was lying but so, they said if I come out with it that I would have to go to jail for 90 years.
Mom: What?
Brendan: Ya. But if came out with itT would probably get I dunno about like 20 or less. After the interview they told me if I wanted to say something to her family and said that I was sorry for what I did.
Mom: Then Steven did do it.
Brendan: Ya
Mom: (Mom Crying) Why diddn’t you tell me about this?
Brendan. Ya, but they came out wi.th something that was untrue with me
Mom:. What’s that?
Brendan: They said that I sold crack
…
Mom: So did you talk to her family?
Brendan: No
M: Huh
Brendan: They just asked me if I wanted to say something to them, on the tape.
Mom: Did you?
Brendan: .lust that I was sorry for what I did.
…
Mom: Did he make you do this?
Brendan: Ya.
Mom: Then why didn’t you tell him that.
Brendan: Tell him what
Mom: That Steven made you do it. You know he made you do a lot of things.
Brendan: Ya, I told them that. I even told them about Steven touching me and that.
Mom: What do you mean touching you?
Brendan: He would grab me somewhere where I was uncomfortable.
Mom: Brendan I am your mother.
Brendan. Ya.
Mom: Why didn’t you come to me? Why didn’t you tell me? Was this all before this happened?
Brendan: What do you mean?
Mom: All before this happened, did he touch you before all this stuff happened to you.
Brendan: Ya.
Mom: Why didn’t you come to me, because then he would have been gone then and this wouldn’t have happened.
Brendan: Ya ..
Mom: Yes, and you would still be here with me.
Brendan: Yes, Well you know I did it.
Mom: Huh
Brendan. You know he always touched us and that.
Mom: I didn’t think there. He used to horse around with you guys.
Brendan: Ya, but you remember he would always do stuff to Brian and that.
Mom: What do you mean.
Brendan: Well he would like fake pumping him
Mom: Goofing around
Brendan: Ya but, like that one time when he was going with what’s her name Jessica .. sister. Mom: Teresa?
Brendan: Ya. That one day when she was over, Steven and Blaine and Brian and I was downstairs and Steven was touching her and that.

— There’s no denying that it was unethical as hell for the investigator of Dassey’s own attorney to elicit a confession out of Brendan, but the documentary suggests that the investigator peppered Brendan with leading questions and basically fed him the answers. From the full transcript (link), that is not the case at all. Brendan not only confessed, he gave a very detailed account of what happened. They had sex with Teresa on the bed, then they carried her out to the garage, where they cut her throat, and that’s where Steven shot her five times with the .22 Brendan said he pulled from above his bed. Then they threw her in the fire. She begged for her life through the entire ordeal. Brendan even cut off some of her hair. Then they cleaned up with bleach and burned all the clothes in the bonfire.

So the documentary left all of this out? It seems like all of this is rather important.

[Pelado]

Thanks for the recommendation of Making a Murderer, guys, that was amazing. We binge watched it over the weekend. I have a lot of questions/comments.

Spoiler for spoilers:

1. At the end of one of the middle episodes, Colborn was on the stand talking about calling in that license plate number. That a major cliff hanger, but they didn't go back to it at the beginning of the next episode or ever again. I almost wondered if I skipped an episode. Why didn't they go into that more?? That was a HUGE point.
2. I loved the show and was very entertained, but after reading more on the case after finishing, I’m kind of disappointed in the documentary makers for manipulating the audience so much by ignoring so many key details that made Avery look more detail.
3. Why was there so much of the victim’s blood in the car? If Avery is guilty, which I’m assuming he is now after reading more details, that doesn’t make sense.
4. Did anyone take lie detector tests or was anyone asked to? Avery, the kid, the brother, the ex-boyfriend, etc.
5. They touched on the phone calls and the deleted voice mail messages, but no theories were ever given. Was the brother or ex-bf ever confronted on why they deleted voice mail and what the voice mail was that they deleted?
6. I didn’t realize the bullet was proven to come from Avery’s gun. That’s pretty condemning, as I could believe the conspiracy was 2-3 wide, but I don’t believe the female DNA scientist would be in on the conspiracy. I think she screwed up contaminating the sample, but I believed her story that this is not the kind of contamination that would confuse the results.

Spoiler for respond to MaM spoilers:

1. Agreed. Definitely seemed as though he had already found the car. Could have moved it to Avery's lot.

2. Agreed. Very disappointing.

3. If Avery were guilty, maybe he thought to dump the body and vehicle somewhere and then changed his mind.

4. Sounded like Brendan did with his crappy attorney's investigator, but I don't think any results were released.

5. Seemed like they intimated that the roommate or ex-boyfriend may have deleted the emails. Seemed like they were under strict orders not to speculate on alternate killers. I can understand how the judge might not want unlimited speculation, but that seems to be a real limitation. The jurors likely want to convict the guilty party. If they are not allowed to hear alternative theories, it makes it harder for them to answer "if not Avery, then who?" Don't know if that's an appropriate question for them to ask, but I would.

6. The DNA technician would not have needed to conspire. Lenk could have picked up a spent bullet somewhere on the property and rubbed it on something with Teresa's DNA - the bones, the blood stains, etc., and then planted it in the garage. Remember, the bullet wasn't found until after the garage had already been searched 3+ times.

[The_Douger]

I have watched about 5 episodes of the first season of the Americans. Meh. Pretty predictable so far. Does it get better in the latter half or should I cut my losses now?

My wife and I have really liked it. It gets better as they get in deeper.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

My wife and I have really liked it. It gets better as they get in deeper.

This made for a great review without context.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Thanks for the recommendation of Making a Murderer, guys, that was amazing. We binge watched it over the weekend. I have a lot of questions/comments.

Spoiler for spoilers:

1. At the end of one of the middle episodes, Colborn was on the stand talking about calling in that license plate number. That a major cliff hanger, but they didn't go back to it at the beginning of the next episode or ever again. I almost wondered if I skipped an episode. Why didn't they go into that more?? That was a HUGE point.
2. I loved the show and was very entertained, but after reading more on the case after finishing, I’m kind of disappointed in the documentary makers for manipulating the audience so much by ignoring so many key details that made Avery look more detail.
3. Why was there so much of the victim’s blood in the car? If Avery is guilty, which I’m assuming he is now after reading more details, that doesn’t make sense.
4. Did anyone take lie detector tests or was anyone asked to? Avery, the kid, the brother, the ex-boyfriend, etc.
5. They touched on the phone calls and the deleted voice mail messages, but no theories were ever given. Was the brother or ex-bf ever confronted on why they deleted voice mail and what the voice mail was that they deleted?
6. I didn’t realize the bullet was proven to come from Avery’s gun. That’s pretty condemning, as I could believe the conspiracy was 2-3 wide, but I don’t believe the female DNA scientist would be in on the conspiracy. I think she screwed up contaminating the sample, but I believed her story that this is not the kind of contamination that would confuse the results.

My take:

Spoiler for spoilers:

1. Here is my theory: Somebody (maybe the brother, ex-BF, etc.) was snooping around the salvage yard and found the car. Contacts the cops and they check it out. Colburn calls in the license plate number to confirm it is the car. They see the blood on the car and they know they have a smoking gun/slam-dunk evidence but they realize that they did not have a warrant and they did not have permission to search the property so they can't announce the find or they lose a massive piece of evidence. So they wait a couple days and then ask some nice Christian lady to get permission and search the property and probably tell her where to look. Think about it: she finds it right away after searching maybe 2-3% of the lot. I also suspect that whoever found it opened it up so they wiped it down, hence the lack of fingerprints.

2. I agree to a point. But I would have to agree with the film-makers that they did reveal the most important pieces of evidence. Personally I think Steven Avery did it but that the investigation and trial were shady and the prosecutors are slime balls. Dassey may have been involved but that poor kid got railroaded. Either way, a fascinating and extraordinarily well-crafted documentary.

3. I read the full Dassey interview (second one). He said that Avery put the body in the RAV4 in the shop and he was going to put the car in the crusher but changed his mind and pulled out the body to burn it.

4. Dassey asked to take one and that is what was supposed to happen with O'Kelly, but O'Kelly spent the time coercing a confession and then handed him over to the cops for another interview without legal representation. That is insane.

5. No idea. That is a mystery.

6. They could have found a slug in the garage and rubbed it in some bone or whatever. By all accounts, there were empty shell casings all over the garage from years of shooting. I doubt it, but there you go.

[Jeff Lebowski]

So the documentary left all of this out? It seems like all of this is rather important.

I can't believe you googled the outcome. You just ruined an amazing tv-watching experience.

You should still watch it. The new gold-standard for true-crime documentary.

[Katy Lied]

And for web series?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Len Kachinsky interview on TMZ.

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/05/making...len-kachinsky/

Still doesn't seem to have a clue that he has an obligation to represent his clients. Even in hindsight. Absolutely incredible.

[old_gregg]

we're only four episodes in, but the most amazing thing to me is that this appears to be an entire community of people with some form of learning disability or mental handicap. more than the malicious and unethical behavior by law enforcement, it's the dumbness of everybody involved that is most stunning.

[old_gregg]

Len Kachinsky interview on TMZ.

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/05/making...len-kachinsky/

Still doesn't seem to have a clue that he has an obligation to represent his clients. Even in hindsight. Absolutely incredible.

he is basically a fargo character.

[jay santos]

he is basically a fargo character.

There's about ten freaking Fargo characters in that show. Truly amazing.

[Jeff Lebowski]

On the topic of Making a Murderer, you should all add Central Park Five to your watchlist asap. It is about five black teenagers (~14 at the time) who were rounded up and accused of a brutal rape in Central Park. Mayer Ed Koch and Donald Trump joined in an overwhelming public response blaming the kids and demanding swift and harsh punishment. The entire case was built on confessions. The circumstances were eerily similar to the Brendan Dassey case. Young kids undergoing grueling interrogation without attorneys present ("Just tell us what we need to hear and you can go home"). Later it was proved definitively that they were innocent. Tragic case that makes you forever suspicious of confessions, no matter how detailed and accurate they appear to be.