What I'd be wondering about if I were a BYU fan

[LA Ute]

Dick Harmon got it right:

In the aftermath, BYU will have to examine why it had Hall attack the teeth of Utah's defensive strength — the secondary — when the Cougars averaged 7.1 yards rushing per attempt, 30 carries for 216 yards in the game.

As I watched the game I was asking that myself. I was very worried about our ability to stop BYU's running game - because the Utes pretty much couldn't, and the momentum seemed to be going BYU's way. Hall's fumble seemed to be the game-changer. Nothing ever went right for the Cougars after that.

[FMCoug]

Dick Harmon got it right:

In the aftermath, BYU will have to examine why it had Hall attack the teeth of Utah's defensive strength — the secondary — when the Cougars averaged 7.1 yards rushing per attempt, 30 carries for 216 yards in the game.

As I watched the game I was asking that myself. I was very worried about our ability to stop BYU's running game - because the Utes pretty much couldn't, and the momentum seemed to be going BYU's way. Hall's fumble seemed to be the game-changer. Nothing ever went right for the Cougars after that.

Because our coaches are too damn stubborn to adjust. They really believe that a) we are a Texas Tech style passing O and b) if we just execute right it doesnt matter what the D does.

I am more pissed at the coaching (specifically Anae and the boneheaded decisions to go away from the run at critical times) than I am at Hall today.

[Donuthole]

I am more pissed at the coaching (specifically Anae and the boneheaded decisions to go away from the run at critical times) than I am at Hall today.

That makes two of us. When you are averaging more per rushing attempt than you are per passing completion, it might be a good time to stick with the run. Especially when that's what got you back into the game (twice).

[OhioBlue]

Because our coaches are too damn stubborn to adjust. They really believe that a) we are a Texas Tech style passing O and b) if we just execute right it doesnt matter what the D does.

I am more pissed at the coaching (specifically Anae and the boneheaded decisions to go away from the run at critical times) than I am at Hall today.

Amen. I am NOT a big fan of Robert Anae right now. Unga, Vakapuna, Hall, Collie, even freakin' Kariya were making massive conquests of land on the ground. There's NO excuse for abandoning the run like that and Anae deserves to have the spotlight on him right now.

[OrangeUte]

when max hall runs for a 11 yard td, you know that your run defense is playing horribly. i agree that it was a closer game than the score let on. the ute D was not good against byu in 3rd down situations. turnovers were the difference. utes could have had even more pics but buttery fingers prevented that.

shawn smith played collie perfectly. held collie to no big plays. AC still picked up 100 yards, but he was having to really work for them.

even injured, pitta is still clutch in "must complete" 3rd down situations. that guy could have been the dagger in our heart if not for the turnovers - and he was injured!

brice mccain scared the shit out of me.

i agree that the better team won. utes defense got the pressure on hall and forced and/or took advantage of the turnovers.

i still dont' get ludwig. johnson excels when the tempo of the game is faster... they moved the ball better out of a no-huddle type offense.

[il Padrino Ute]

i still dont' get ludwig. johnson excels when the tempo of the game is faster... they moved the ball better out of a no-huddle type offense.

Ludwing called a helluva game yesterday.

In fact, I'd say that Ludwig called a helluva season. The x-factor in games is the execution by the players. When they execute, the OC looks great. When they don't, the OC looks poor.

[cougjunkie]

when max hall runs for a 11 yard td, you know that your run defense is playing horribly. i agree that it was a closer game than the score let on. the ute D was not good against byu in 3rd down situations. turnovers were the difference. utes could have had even more pics but buttery fingers prevented that.

shawn smith played collie perfectly. held collie to no big plays. AC still picked up 100 yards, but he was having to really work for them.

even injured, pitta is still clutch in "must complete" 3rd down situations. that guy could have been the dagger in our heart if not for the turnovers - and he was injured!

brice mccain scared the shit out of me.

i agree that the better team won. utes defense got the pressure on hall and forced and/or took advantage of the turnovers.

i still dont' get ludwig. johnson excels when the tempo of the game is faster... they moved the ball better out of a no-huddle type offense.

One surprising thing for me is that BYU did not give up a sack. For some reason I felt like they gave up 5.

[Mormon Red Death]

Dick Harmon got it right:

In the aftermath, BYU will have to examine why it had Hall attack the teeth of Utah's defensive strength — the secondary — when the Cougars averaged 7.1 yards rushing per attempt, 30 carries for 216 yards in the game.

As I watched the game I was asking that myself. I was very worried about our ability to stop BYU's running game - because the Utes pretty much couldn't, and the momentum seemed to be going BYU's way. Hall's fumble seemed to be the game-changer. Nothing ever went right for the Cougars after that.

The game changer was the pick before the half and the ensuing Personal foul on Max hall.

[Gocougs]

One surprising thing for me is that BYU did not give up a sack. For some reason I felt like they gave up 5.

Unfortunately, I would have taken sacks over interceptions. Hall looked like he was confused. On one pass play, he thought Pitta was going to change his route instead of running the route that was called. Max, quit trying to outhink the other team and your own players. Make the throws that are designed.

[Hot Lunch]

The game changer was the pick before the half and the ensuing Personal foul on Max hall.

With out a doubt this was the game changer. Instead of being down by 3 at the worst at halftime, BYU went down by 10.

[TripletDaddy]

My concerns are not really Utah-related. They are more big picture than that. The Utah game didnt' reveal anything, it only highlighted that which we already knew.

I am wondering if Max has hit the ceiling. Watching him in action over the weekend, not getting better as the game wore on but actually getting worse.....repeating what we saw in the TCU game....that's when I knew that Max Hall isn't great. He's good. But he isn't great.

Is he going to come back next season and correct the mistakes that up until now he hasn't been able to correct? Is he going to stop telegraphing passes? Is he going to grow a foot or two and avoid all those bat downs? Or will he come back, be a good solid QB again, win 9-10 games, lose a few, and then go on his way to a poor NFL career?

I am not sneezing at his success. I am just trying to decide whether he is truly great.

The other big picture issue that no BYU fan wants to discuss, but I will throw it out. In channeling my inner Exie, the Y has some serious soul searching to do. The U has now gone undefeated and into the BCS twice in the past 4 years. The Y has not come within 2 losses each season of accomplishing the same feat. The U performs better against BCS opponents. The Y flounders against OOC foes if it is a road game. In short, the U has been outclassing the Y. They achieve more with (allegedly) less, while the Y underachieves. Why is this? I am being honest here and not looking for some troll SeattleUte answer. I am looking for real guesses as to why this is happening.

BYU's OOC schedule next year is not very forgiving.

[cougjunkie]

My concerns are not really Utah-related. They are more big picture than that. The Utah game didnt' reveal anything, it only highlighted that which we already knew.

I am wondering if Max has hit the ceiling. Watching him in action over the weekend, not getting better as the game wore on but actually getting worse.....repeating what we saw in the TCU game....that's when I knew that Max Hall isn't great. He's good. But he isn't great.

Is he going to come back next season and correct the mistakes that up until now he hasn't been able to correct? Is he going to stop telegraphing passes? Is he going to grow a foot or two and avoid all those bat downs? Or will he come back, be a good solid QB again, win 9-10 games, lose a few, and then go on his way to a poor NFL career?

I am not sneezing at his success. I am just trying to decide whether he is truly great.

The other big picture issue that no BYU fan wants to discuss, but I will throw it out. In channeling my inner Exie, the Y has some serious soul searching to do. The U has now gone undefeated and into the BCS twice in the past 4 years. The Y has not come within 2 losses each season of accomplishing the same feat. The U performs better against BCS opponents. The Y flounders against OOC foes if it is a road game. In short, the U has been outclassing the Y. They achieve more with (allegedly) less, while the Y underachieves. Why is this? I am being honest here and not looking for some troll SeattleUte answer. I am looking for real guesses as to why this is happening.

BYU's OOC schedule next year is not very forgiving.

Regarding point number 2, do you think that possibly BYU is actually get more out of its players and that they are just not that talented? I mean lets break this down for a second:

The Defense: Kellen Fowler, David Tafuna, Brandon Howard, Matt Bauman, Shawn Doman, do not start for another team in this conference and I truly mean that. I think that Denney, Clawson, Tialavea and Howard/Johnson are average to above average players for the MWC but they dont start for Utah or TCU. Jorgensen and Nixon are the only real studs on Defense. The fact that we have even made it to this point can be considered a success.

On Offense: I think we are pretty loaded but like my highschool coach always said: "Offense wins games, Defense wins Championships" That seems to be true especially this year in the MWC.

Maybe Bronco is getting more out of his players and in reality we are a 7-5 or 8-4 team?

[TripletDaddy]

Regarding point number 2, do you think that possibly BYU is actually get more out of its players and that they are just not that talented? I mean lets break this down for a second:

The Defense: Kellen Fowler, David Tafuna, Brandon Howard, Matt Bauman, Shawn Doman, do not start for another team in this conference and I truly mean that. I think that Denney, Clawson, Tialavea and Howard/Johnson are average to above average players for the MWC but they dont start for Utah or TCU. Jorgensen and Nixon are the only real studs on Defense. The fact that we have even made it to this point can be considered a success.

On Offense: I think we are pretty loaded but like my highschool coach always said: "Offense wins games, Defense wins Championships" That seems to be true especially this year in the MWC.

Maybe Bronco is getting more out of his players and in reality we are a 7-5 or 8-4 team?

Based on how the D started the season and then ended it, I would have little problem buying the overachieve argument.

However, that simply begs a different question.....why is the Y getting inferior talent and losing the recruting war with Utah? Is it the honor code restrictions?

I hate this because basically Exie was right.

[Hot Lunch]

The other big picture issue that no BYU fan wants to discuss, but I will throw it out. In channeling my inner Exie, the Y has some serious soul searching to do. The U has now gone undefeated and into the BCS twice in the past 4 years. The Y has not come within 2 losses each season of accomplishing the same feat. The U performs better against BCS opponents. The Y flounders against OOC foes if it is a road game. In short, the U has been outclassing the Y. They achieve more with (allegedly) less, while the Y underachieves. Why is this? I am being honest here and not looking for some troll SeattleUte answer. I am looking for real guesses as to why this is happening.

BYU's OOC schedule next year is not very forgiving.

In all honesty the bigger picture doesn't look good for BYU.... Next year they have a very fast FSU team coming to LES. Speed really kills BYU. The biggest weakness on this team was the secondary and middle linebackers. There aren't any coming up the ranks right now at middle backer. The same guys that were in the middle this year will be there next year. The secondary we have Rich stepping in which should be an improvement from this year. I still don't understand why he wasn't starting from the start but who plays the other safety position? Te'o I am hoping. He was impressive in camp and could be good but we have the same corners and most importantly probably the same scheme.

Looking further down the road to 2010 is even worse. All the play makers on Offense are gone as well as the entire D line. Yeah there is a little depth on the D line right now but still you starting front 3 are going to be replaced.

IMO the big picture doesn't look good for the Y right now.

[Goatnapper'96]

My concerns are not really Utah-related. They are more big picture than that. The Utah game didnt' reveal anything, it only highlighted that which we already knew.

I am wondering if Max has hit the ceiling. Watching him in action over the weekend, not getting better as the game wore on but actually getting worse.....repeating what we saw in the TCU game....that's when I knew that Max Hall isn't great. He's good. But he isn't great.

Is he going to come back next season and correct the mistakes that up until now he hasn't been able to correct? Is he going to stop telegraphing passes? Is he going to grow a foot or two and avoid all those bat downs? Or will he come back, be a good solid QB again, win 9-10 games, lose a few, and then go on his way to a poor NFL career?

I am not sneezing at his success. I am just trying to decide whether he is truly great.

The other big picture issue that no BYU fan wants to discuss, but I will throw it out. In channeling my inner Exie, the Y has some serious soul searching to do. The U has now gone undefeated and into the BCS twice in the past 4 years. The Y has not come within 2 losses each season of accomplishing the same feat. The U performs better against BCS opponents. The Y flounders against OOC foes if it is a road game. In short, the U has been outclassing the Y. They achieve more with (allegedly) less, while the Y underachieves. Why is this? I am being honest here and not looking for some troll SeattleUte answer. I am looking for real guesses as to why this is happening.

BYU's OOC schedule next year is not very forgiving.

I don't think soul-searching should be based in comparison to Utah. I have long felt that Utah should be better than BYU, it has fewer impediments to success than BYU has. I just think that BYU has a better coaching staff, or one that figured things out quicker. I don't buy the more with less at all. Utah has some huge advantages over BYU. That is not defeatist but reality. Further, next year BYU gets the big two in Provo and my guess is the defense will be a little bit better. BYU had a solid team this year with an inflated win total due to poor competiton, but I am not convinced that BYU is suddenly outclassed by TCU and Utah.

Utah had a spectacular year this year, hats off to them but I am no way convinced that BYU will never field a team as good as Utah this year. I doubt it will take much to convince me BYU will never field a team as good as Utah in 2004, but BYU can be as good as Utah was this year. They may do that next year and I believe the 2006 Y squad was every bit as good as this U squad. I think that Mendenhall has lifted BYU and the consistency indicates that eventually he is likely to get his fair share of teams totally over the hump. My frustrations with the coaching staff is letting the talent on defense get as poor as it was this year. That should have been headed off a year or two ago.

As for Max Hall, I don't know what to say or predict. Time will tell how things next year. I commented before this year that I thought that Max was the recepient of a great supporting cast. Then he had those first six games and I thought I was wrong, but as the dust settles on this year Max Hall was fundamental to both losses. I think he can improve and I think it is likely he will. In fact I believe the better schedule should help. My one comment on Hall is that I thought he was better mentally than Beck, but I never believed he would be as good as Beck was once Beck got confidence and his mental game no longer held back his physical attributes. So yes, I think Hall has a ceiling so to speak, but he can still play better than he did against Utah or TCU. Being the optimist I think he will next year.