Phosphate ban on dishwasher detergents

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Okay, so I tried to buy some contraband, phosphate-laden dishwasher detergent in Nevada and the phosphate free crap is apparently there too -- and Nevada wasn't one of the 15 states or so that passed the no phosphate law. Apparently all of the detergent manufacturers have decided to only have phosphate free detergent in their consumer lines (apparently keeping separate processes and separate distribution would be too expensive).

So, I looked into two things -- get some of DDD's FIL's magic white powder or try to find some commercial line stuff that still contains phosphates. I actually found a 16 oz. box of white powder made by Finish (formerly known as Electrosol) in Lowes and on the side of the box I saw this blessed item in the ingredients "Sodium Tripolyphosphate." I'm not sure if Wal-Mart sells it. Next time I'm around a janitorial supply place, I'll see if they sell any of the good commercial stuff.

[TripletDaddy]

Costco now sells regular boxes of cascade that have some new formula. The box indicates "phosphate free" on it, plus some other mumbo jumbo that basically says that it will clean your dishes even without the phosphates.

Problem solved.

We haven't purchased that lemon stuff in about a month.

[Babs]

Triplet, I think it's safe to say that we're all truly comforted to hear that you've been relieved of such an affliction. It seems the prayer of the righteous really does accomplish much!

[TripletDaddy]

Triplet, I think it's safe to say that we're all truly comforted to hear that you've been relieved of such an affliction. It seems the prayer of the righteous really does accomplish much!

I see you are still mad at the "realty check" thread.

[Babs]

[Uncle Ted]

Where does one get the phosphate powder?

You should try going to home depot, getting some lawn fertilizer that is high in phosphate and throwing that in there with your dishwasher detergent. Or did they band that too?

(I wonder if the phosphate problem in lakes is due more to lawn fertilizer and over watering than dishwasher detergent.)



If that doesn't work then you can apply the remainder to your lawn.

[cowboy]

You should try going to home depot, getting some lawn fertilizer that is high in phosphate and throwing that in there with your dishwasher detergent. Or did they band that too?

(I wonder if the phosphate problem in lakes is due more to lawn fertilizer and over watering than dishwasher detergent.)



If that doesn't work then you can apply the remainder to your lawn.

In western states where the water (and soils) are basic, the phosphates stop moving as soon as they hit the soil because they bind with the calcium in the soil. In the eastern states that have more acidic soils, phosphate fertilizers could travel to ponds.

[wally]

Typically the spots are caused by hard water (if you don't soften). Phosphorus in dishwashing detergent creates phosphoric acid which will prevent scale (hard water deposits, also called lime). There are several acids (acetic, citric, sorbic, lactic, phosphoric) commonly used as descaling agents to remove limescale deposits.

You can supplement dish detergent with mild acids in place of jet-dry. The "lemi-shine" type products are citric acid. I use white vinegar (acetic acid) in my dishwasher, because it’s cheap. The citric acid types are popular because sensitive olfactory nerves like citrus-scented kitchens over ones that smell like a chippy.
Hope this helps.

[wally]

You should try going to home depot, getting some lawn fertilizer that is high in phosphate and throwing that in there with your dishwasher detergent. Or did they band that too?

(I wonder if the phosphate problem in lakes is due more to lawn fertilizer and over watering than dishwasher detergent.)



If that doesn't work then you can apply the remainder to your lawn.

This is an enormous issue actually in the water quality world. Nutrients (Phosphorus and Nitrogen) are known to cause eutrophication in water bodies where conditions are right. In a nutshell, overabundance of nutrients in water creates an environment where algae thrive. Algae photosynthesize during the day (putting more oxygen in the water) and at night algae respires (taking oxygen out of the water). The latter, in excess, can cause problems with aquatic biology violating clean water act requirements that water bodies be “swimmable and FISHABLE”.

Nutrients get into water in one of two ways: 1) from a point source (wastewater discharge, easy to regulate) or a 2) non-point source (over-fertilization, livestock manure, other agriculture, etc.) Because, heaping environmental regs onto farmers/ranchers without providing funding would result in non-competitive (with imports) pricing in food, regulators have traditionally targeted the wastewater treatment utilities and industry for nutrient loading reduction, but to truly see a difference where it matters (Chesapeake Bay for example), agriculture has to be involved in a solution.

Phosphorus overuse is another natural resource issue that is gaining traction in the world at large also. And it just so happens that I posted on it here:
http://cougaruteforum.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=14

[cowboy]

Because, heaping environmental regs onto farmers/ranchers without providing funding would result in non-competitive (with imports) pricing in food, regulators have traditionally targeted the wastewater treatment utilities and industry for nutrient loading reduction, but to truly see a difference where it matters (Chesapeake Bay for example), agriculture has to be involved in a solution.

Are you suggesting that we regulate farmers here and import our food from other countries who produce it cheaper? What countries do you think would produce corn and wheat cheaper than the US under similar regulatory requirements?

[wally]

Are you suggesting that we regulate farmers here and import our food from other countries who produce it cheaper? What countries do you think would produce corn and wheat cheaper than the US under similar regulatory requirements?

Not at all. What I'm saying is that if the EPA wants to regulate the ag industry at-large for water quality, then there should be some sort of federal funding mechanism so that we are not all relegated to eating Argentinian beef.

It is not fair to ask an environmentally regulated U.S. agriculture to compete with another NAFTA country’s agriculture that has zero environmental regulation.

And you are right, I hadn't thought of corn and wheat. I was thinking more of imported stuff.