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Thread: Phosphate ban on dishwasher detergents

  1. #1
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Default Phosphate ban on dishwasher detergents

    So back in June, Utah bans high phosphate in dishwasher detergents. After suffering through a month or so of spotty dishes, the in laws get wind of the new law and start purchasing some extra powder that they throw into the dishwasher along with the regular detergent. Since that time, the dishes returned to their usual spot free condition.

    My questions:

    Did any of you in the phosphate states notice the change once the ban took effect? Apparently 15 or so states banned it and so detergent companies have begun to adjust accordingly.

    For those living in the 'Tah, what do you use to combat the spotty dishes? Is there a single detergent solution that works effectively, in lieu of buying the extra powder?
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    Senior Member Clark Addison's Avatar
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    The only thing I know about this is what I learned on CB, so all I can tell you is that it is a major step on our inevitable path to living in a Commu-Facist state.

    I assume your in-laws will be sent to re-education camps soon, but other than that I don't think I can help you out.

  3. #3

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    We noticed a signficant difference in how clean our dishes were getting and that we were getting a white film on them after washing. We were bothered because we replaced our dishwasher last year and thought that it was defective. My wife started googling, and she found out that it was a problem related to the phosphorous change. This was just before it became common knowledge on the news.

    We bought a product called lemi-shine. You fill the soap tray with this stuff and run the dishwasher through a cycle while empty. Then you use a little mixed with regular detergent each time you wash. We repeat the empty dishwasher cycle every couple weeks. It has helped a lot.

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    aka Benito Hazard thesaint258's Avatar
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    I'm going to start a business bringing high phosphate detergents into the state. I think I'll start small and just sell to friends or people at church, but I hope to one day turn it into a successful MLM.
    Not that, sickos.

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    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kccougar View Post
    We noticed a signficant difference in how clean our dishes were getting and that we were getting a white film on them after washing. We were bothered because we replaced our dishwasher last year and thought that it was defective. My wife started googling, and she found out that it was a problem related to the phosphorous change. This was just before it became common knowledge on the news.

    We bought a product called lemi-shine. You fill the soap tray with this stuff and run the dishwasher through a cycle while empty. Then you use a little mixed with regular detergent each time you wash. We repeat the empty dishwasher cycle every couple weeks. It has helped a lot.
    This is the exact series of events that my 'laws described...a white filmy coating on all the glasses. They currently use some sort of magic powder, as well....might even be the same brand. I am wondering if there is an all-in-one solution so we dont have to keep buying the extra powder.
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  6. #6

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    I was unaware of the ban. I have some Cascade Liquid that I bought at Costco a couple months ago. Do the manufacturers have two lines of detergent and did I unknowingly by the low phosphate stuff?

    Does Nevada have the same ban? I'm down in Vegas at least twice a month, so I'll have to load up at Costco.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

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    Sexiest Poster in Town UteStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    So back in June, Utah bans high phosphate in dishwasher detergents. After suffering through a month or so of spotty dishes, the in laws get wind of the new law and start purchasing some extra powder that they throw into the dishwasher along with the regular detergent. Since that time, the dishes returned to their usual spot free condition.

    My questions:

    Did any of you in the phosphate states notice the change once the ban took effect? Apparently 15 or so states banned it and so detergent companies have begun to adjust accordingly.

    For those living in the 'Tah, what do you use to combat the spotty dishes? Is there a single detergent solution that works effectively, in lieu of buying the extra powder?


    BAMMMM!!! How do you like me now? UteStar to the rescue and you mocked me. Only those that do not understand my ways, mock my ways!
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    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    I was unaware of the ban. I have some Cascade Liquid that I bought at Costco a couple months ago. Do the manufacturers have two lines of detergent and did I unknowingly by the low phosphate stuff?

    Does Nevada have the same ban? I'm down in Vegas at least twice a month, so I'll have to load up at Costco.
    As far as I can tell, Nevada has not banned phosphorus in dish detergents. That being said, my dishes are still covered with white spots and my dish washer is too.

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    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UteStar View Post
    BAMMMM!!! How do you like me now? UteStar to the rescue and you mocked me. Only those that do not understand my ways, mock my ways!
    http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?t=32815
    I already know the difference between hard and soft water.

    I'm asking about phosphates in dishwasher detergent. Pay attention!
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  10. #10
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    I was unaware of the ban. I have some Cascade Liquid that I bought at Costco a couple months ago. Do the manufacturers have two lines of detergent and did I unknowingly by the low phosphate stuff?

    Does Nevada have the same ban? I'm down in Vegas at least twice a month, so I'll have to load up at Costco.
    Here is a July article from appliance.net (great web portal for all appliance-related news)

    http://www.appliance.net/2010/states...sher-soap-1988

    States instituting the rule include Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin, reports the Associated Press.
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  11. #11

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    I have a water softener so maybe that's why I haven't noticed a huge change. I have noticed that things perhaps aren't as clean as they used to be, so I'm scrubbing the dishes more before they go into the dishwasher.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

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    Senior Member il Padrino Ute's Avatar
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    More nanny state crap. I'd like to know if there is a filter I can buy that will put the phosphate back into the detergent.
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  13. #13

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    My wife bought two enormous Cascade jugs at Costco back in October and we're half way through one of them. The jugs look the same as any other jug of Cascade. I loaded the dishwasher on Saturday and I looked at the jug and in very tiny print it says "phosphate free."

    Where does one get the phosphate powder?

    After I'm done with these two jugs, I'll be buying some contraband dishwater detergent down at Las Vegas Costco when I'm down there at some point.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  14. #14
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    My wife bought two enormous Cascade jugs at Costco back in October and we're half way through one of them. The jugs look the same as any other jug of Cascade. I loaded the dishwasher on Saturday and I looked at the jug and in very tiny print it says "phosphate free."

    Where does one get the phosphate powder?

    After I'm done with these two jugs, I'll be buying some contraband dishwater detergent down at Las Vegas Costco when I'm down there at some point.
    I havent seen your wife's jugs, but they sound a lot like my MILs (I've seen those).

    How are your dishes? Do they get that filmy residue on them after each wash?
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    I havent seen your wife's jugs, but they sound a lot like my MILs (I've seen those).

    How are your dishes? Do they get that filmy residue on them after each wash?
    I've had some spotting and filmy residue that have resulted from using these jugs.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  16. #16

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    Okay, so I tried to buy some contraband, phosphate-laden dishwasher detergent in Nevada and the phosphate free crap is apparently there too -- and Nevada wasn't one of the 15 states or so that passed the no phosphate law. Apparently all of the detergent manufacturers have decided to only have phosphate free detergent in their consumer lines (apparently keeping separate processes and separate distribution would be too expensive).

    So, I looked into two things -- get some of DDD's FIL's magic white powder or try to find some commercial line stuff that still contains phosphates. I actually found a 16 oz. box of white powder made by Finish (formerly known as Electrosol) in Lowes and on the side of the box I saw this blessed item in the ingredients "Sodium Tripolyphosphate." I'm not sure if Wal-Mart sells it. Next time I'm around a janitorial supply place, I'll see if they sell any of the good commercial stuff.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  17. #17
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Costco now sells regular boxes of cascade that have some new formula. The box indicates "phosphate free" on it, plus some other mumbo jumbo that basically says that it will clean your dishes even without the phosphates.

    Problem solved.

    We haven't purchased that lemon stuff in about a month.
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    Triplet, I think it's safe to say that we're all truly comforted to hear that you've been relieved of such an affliction. It seems the prayer of the righteous really does accomplish much!

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    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babs View Post
    Triplet, I think it's safe to say that we're all truly comforted to hear that you've been relieved of such an affliction. It seems the prayer of the righteous really does accomplish much!
    I see you are still mad at the "realty check" thread.
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  21. #21
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    Where does one get the phosphate powder?
    You should try going to home depot, getting some lawn fertilizer that is high in phosphate and throwing that in there with your dishwasher detergent. Or did they band that too?

    (I wonder if the phosphate problem in lakes is due more to lawn fertilizer and over watering than dishwasher detergent.)



    If that doesn't work then you can apply the remainder to your lawn.
    Last edited by Uncle Ted; 02-11-2011 at 08:41 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    You should try going to home depot, getting some lawn fertilizer that is high in phosphate and throwing that in there with your dishwasher detergent. Or did they band that too?

    (I wonder if the phosphate problem in lakes is due more to lawn fertilizer and over watering than dishwasher detergent.)



    If that doesn't work then you can apply the remainder to your lawn.
    In western states where the water (and soils) are basic, the phosphates stop moving as soon as they hit the soil because they bind with the calcium in the soil. In the eastern states that have more acidic soils, phosphate fertilizers could travel to ponds.

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    <><><><><><><><> wally's Avatar
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    Typically the spots are caused by hard water (if you don't soften). Phosphorus in dishwashing detergent creates phosphoric acid which will prevent scale (hard water deposits, also called lime). There are several acids (acetic, citric, sorbic, lactic, phosphoric) commonly used as descaling agents to remove limescale deposits.

    You can supplement dish detergent with mild acids in place of jet-dry. The "lemi-shine" type products are citric acid. I use white vinegar (acetic acid) in my dishwasher, because it’s cheap. The citric acid types are popular because sensitive olfactory nerves like citrus-scented kitchens over ones that smell like a chippy.
    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by wally; 02-11-2011 at 09:36 AM.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    ... what do you use to combat the spotty dishes? Is there a single detergent solution that works effectively, in lieu of buying the extra powder?
    For hard water, the only sure fire way to eliminate the spotty or grimmy effect is to use a citric-acid additive. We have fairly hard water where we live and the dishes were coming out of the dishwasher with this terrible, grimmy film. Upon the suggestion of a local, my spouse started buying a citric-acid additive on her grocery trip to Walmart, and it works like a charm. But yes, she has to add it to every dishwasher load.

    Here's an example of what I'm talking about.
    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Harold-Import-Company-Inc-9012/dp/B000GLRF2E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1297441329&sr=8-1"]Amazon.com: Glisten Dishwasher Cleaner: Health & Personal Care@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BNEvsRMlL.@@AMEPARAM@@51BNEvsRMlL[/ame]

    I can't speak for the lemon-whatever-stuff, but if it has citric-acid, you are good to go.

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    <><><><><><><><> wally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    You should try going to home depot, getting some lawn fertilizer that is high in phosphate and throwing that in there with your dishwasher detergent. Or did they band that too?

    (I wonder if the phosphate problem in lakes is due more to lawn fertilizer and over watering than dishwasher detergent.)



    If that doesn't work then you can apply the remainder to your lawn.
    This is an enormous issue actually in the water quality world. Nutrients (Phosphorus and Nitrogen) are known to cause eutrophication in water bodies where conditions are right. In a nutshell, overabundance of nutrients in water creates an environment where algae thrive. Algae photosynthesize during the day (putting more oxygen in the water) and at night algae respires (taking oxygen out of the water). The latter, in excess, can cause problems with aquatic biology violating clean water act requirements that water bodies be “swimmable and FISHABLE”.

    Nutrients get into water in one of two ways: 1) from a point source (wastewater discharge, easy to regulate) or a 2) non-point source (over-fertilization, livestock manure, other agriculture, etc.) Because, heaping environmental regs onto farmers/ranchers without providing funding would result in non-competitive (with imports) pricing in food, regulators have traditionally targeted the wastewater treatment utilities and industry for nutrient loading reduction, but to truly see a difference where it matters (Chesapeake Bay for example), agriculture has to be involved in a solution.

    Phosphorus overuse is another natural resource issue that is gaining traction in the world at large also. And it just so happens that I posted on it here:
    http://cougaruteforum.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=14

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by wally View Post
    Because, heaping environmental regs onto farmers/ranchers without providing funding would result in non-competitive (with imports) pricing in food, regulators have traditionally targeted the wastewater treatment utilities and industry for nutrient loading reduction, but to truly see a difference where it matters (Chesapeake Bay for example), agriculture has to be involved in a solution.
    Are you suggesting that we regulate farmers here and import our food from other countries who produce it cheaper? What countries do you think would produce corn and wheat cheaper than the US under similar regulatory requirements?

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    <><><><><><><><> wally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
    Are you suggesting that we regulate farmers here and import our food from other countries who produce it cheaper? What countries do you think would produce corn and wheat cheaper than the US under similar regulatory requirements?
    Not at all. What I'm saying is that if the EPA wants to regulate the ag industry at-large for water quality, then there should be some sort of federal funding mechanism so that we are not all relegated to eating Argentinian beef.

    It is not fair to ask an environmentally regulated U.S. agriculture to compete with another NAFTA country’s agriculture that has zero environmental regulation.

    And you are right, I hadn't thought of corn and wheat. I was thinking more of imported stuff.
    Last edited by wally; 02-11-2011 at 11:05 AM.

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