I like Wikileaks. Does this make me anti-American?

[statman]

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/11/2...ating-the.html

Robert Gates:


http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...nd-otherwise/?

I'm pretty agnostic on this stuff too, and haven't had time to read much about it, but my normal reaction is to value freedom over safety on these sorts of issues so you can probably guess which way I'm leaning. The above quote suggests that those saying Assange has "blood on his hands" are the usual scared sheep.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/gl...ex.html?jgh=jg

The "blood on the hands" is very real - with the first big release from Wikileaks it was all about military secrets - including operatives & informants identities. There was no noble intent there. None at all.

This last release very well might not have blood associated with it - except perhaps for the Wikileaks folks' blood that is. Screwing with Putin is not a bright thing to do.

[Clark Addison]

While I am generally pro-disclosure and transparency, I find myself swayed in this matter by a couple of impressions I get.

#1, this appears to be driven at least in part by anti-American fervor rather than the idealistic desire for openness. I admit that my pro-American bias may be coming into play here, so this one is debatable.

#2, Assange appears to be an enormous douche. I think this one is less debatable than the first one.

[Bjorn Turoque]

I like WikiLeaks. But my politics are decidedly non-mainstream, so I don't know if that tells you much, RF.

The American Empire just needs to die. It will, but not until it's forced to. The empire's finances present a much bigger problem in this regard than any of this WikiLeaks business does, so I really don't understand the fuss.

One thing I do find interesting, in all of this, is that nobody ever questions why we "need" to spy on all of these other countries, or whether we need troops in every corner of the globe. We just assume that Alaric and the Visigoths would take over the White House if we didn't have armies in every country and bases in 100 different countries (or whatever it is).

But I guess that shouldn't be too surprising. We're just like all other imperialists throughout history, believing that God put us on this earth to go around telling other people how to live. If people dare embarrass us, those folks must be evil, right?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I had a conversation about this with my neighbor who is retired CIA. He said that this incident is a result of the demand for greater data-sharing between agencies post 9-11. Prior to that time, it would be much more difficult for some low-level dumbass to do such a massive intel dump. He thinks there will be pressure now for less intel sharing and we will revert back to pre 9-11 conditions. Somewhere, OBL is smiling.

[woot]

I had a conversation about this with my neighbor who is retired CIA. He said that this incident is a result of the demand for greater data-sharing between agencies post 9-11. Prior to that time, it would be much more difficult for some low-level dumbass to do such a massive intel dump. He thinks there will be pressure now for less intel sharing and we will revert back to pre 9-11 conditions. Somewhere, OBL is smiling.

I doubt this could possibly cause him to smile any harder than all the TSA stuff, the warrantless the wiretapping, the Patriot Act, etc. Osama has our constitution in shreds.

Remember, the goal of terrorists is to terrorize, not to kill. That's why we call them terrorists. Ironic that all of what we've done to ourselves out of terror has been in the name of fighting terrorism.

[woot]

While I am generally pro-disclosure and transparency, I find myself swayed in this matter by a couple of impressions I get.

#1, this appears to be driven at least in part by anti-American fervor rather than the idealistic desire for openness. I admit that my pro-American bias may be coming into play here, so this one is debatable.

#2, Assange appears to be an enormous douche. I think this one is less debatable than the first one.

I don't know that I like the "idealistic desire for openness"-"anti-American fervor" dichotomy. It's a bit like campaigning for a new offensive coordinator. Is that anti-BYU? Well, yes, if it means BYU as currently constituted, but the motivation is to make BYU better. This is how our country has progressed over the years, and right now I don't see it headed in a good direction. I think there needs to be a ton of reform, but even mr. hope and change seems to have been snowed under my the institutional inertia. So, while I don't want to get completely on board with Wikileaks, I think many of those who are have done so out of a desire for openness and a desire to get America back to what it's supposed to be, even if that means not being shy about pointing out how bad it's gotten.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I doubt this could possibly cause him to smile any harder than all the TSA stuff, the warrantless the wiretapping, the Patriot Act, etc. Osama has our constitution in shreds.

Remember, the goal of terrorists is to terrorize, not to kill. That's why we call them terrorists. Ironic that all of what we've done to ourselves out of terror has been in the name of fighting terrorism.

Have you read The Looming Tower?

[woot]

Have you read The Looming Tower?

Indeed I have! Very unlikely coincidence, as I very rarely read that sort of thing.

[frank ryan]

Have you read The Looming Tower?

That book should be required reading for regular water cooler posters

[Non Sequitur]

Have you read The Looming Tower?

The Looming Tower was written by Lawrence Wright, who also wrote the screenplay for The Siege. This clip is the famous speech Denzel gives about how responding to terrorism with terror debases us. It is especially eerie given that it was written 3 years before 911.

[youtube]yAljMs9Ml5g[/youtube]

[old_gregg]

well, it's tough to hold any moral high ground when one is accused of rape. if the accusations are true, i hope he's in jail for a long time.

[Uncle Ted]

well, it's tough to hold any moral high ground when one is accused of rape. if the accusations are true, i hope he's in jail for a long time.

While I am note defending Julian Assang or his actions but it seems that he is being held without bond for something called "sex by surprise" (not using a condom) which carries a fine of 5,000 kronor or about $715.

[old_gregg]

While I am note defending Julian Assang or his actions but it seems that he is being held without bond for something called "sex by surprise" (not using a condom) which carries a fine of 5,000 kronor or about $715.

sounds more serious than that to me, especially that he pinned a woman down:

Attorney Gemma Lindfield, acting on behalf of the Swedish authorities, outlined one allegation of rape, two allegations of molestation and one of unlawful coercion stemming from Assange's separate sexual encounters in August with two women in Sweden.

Lindfield said one woman accused Assange of pinning her down and refusing to use a condom on the night of Aug. 14 in Stockholm. That woman also accused of Assange of molesting her in a way "designed to violate her sexual integrity" several days later.

A second woman accused Assange of having sex with her without a condom while she was asleep at her Stockholm home.

[woot]

I'll be interested to see if these allegations have any merit. The timing seems awful fishy to me.

[creekster]

I'll be interested to see if these allegations have any merit. The timing seems awful fishy to me.

I read a lngthy description of them. My impression is that they have merit undersome odd Swedishlaws and they are legitmate as possible charges. But I also think it is likely they are being pursued so vigorously and so promptly as a result of his affiliation with wikileaks. I will also say that my impression is that he is exactly the narcissist that he seems.