I know a lot of you lowlanders don't believe in altitude difference, but I experience the effects. For example, I am in Dallas right now and this morning ran my fastest 5k at 25:12 and ran my 10k in 52:36 and I didn't push at all. This is just not possible for me to do when training at 5k ft. But everytime I head to sea level, my stamina increases dramatically. Maybe it is just a one way effect? Or effects some over others but the difference is there.
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Originally posted by Coach McGuirk View PostI know a lot of you lowlanders don't believe in altitude difference, but I experience the effects. For example, I am in Dallas right now and this morning ran my fastest 5k at 25:12 and ran my 10k in 52:36 and I didn't push at all. This is just not possible for me to do when training at 5k ft. But everytime I head to sea level, my stamina increases dramatically. Maybe it is just a one way effect? Or effects some over others but the difference is there.At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
-Berry Trammel, 12/3/10
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Originally posted by nikuman View PostHey, you Utah runners, I need some help. I have to squeeze in a 20 miler while I'm there and need some help figuring out a route. I'm okay going one way and taking a bus back or having my wife pick me up. I will be staying within a mile of the Cabelas in Lehi.
http://www.endomondo.com/routes/3105522
http://nikerunning.nike.com/nikeos/p...ail/410473517/
http://www.mapmyrun.com/run/united-s...lehi/118830839 Jordan River seems to have a trail by it as well, just look out for bodies.
Or you could just find a track and run 80 laps"Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf
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Originally posted by nikuman View PostHey, you Utah runners, I need some help. I have to squeeze in a 20 miler while I'm there and need some help figuring out a route. I'm okay going one way and taking a bus back or having my wife pick me up. I will be staying within a mile of the Cabelas in Lehi.At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
-Berry Trammel, 12/3/10
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Originally posted by Eddie Jones View PostI'm not a Utah runner, but some sites have different routes. Here's a couple (they aren't 20 miles but they aren't too short that you can't run them twice and get bored):
http://www.endomondo.com/routes/3105522
http://nikerunning.nike.com/nikeos/p...ail/410473517/
http://www.mapmyrun.com/run/united-s...lehi/118830839 Jordan River seems to have a trail by it as well, just look out for bodies.
Or you could just find a track and run 80 lapsAt least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
-Berry Trammel, 12/3/10
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Originally posted by nikuman View PostHey, you Utah runners, I need some help. I have to squeeze in a 20 miler while I'm there and need some help figuring out a route. I'm okay going one way and taking a bus back or having my wife pick me up. I will be staying within a mile of the Cabelas in Lehi.
In Lehi, if you'r OK doing some hills you could run over Traverse Mountain and up towards the canyons and back"You interns are like swallows. You shit all over my patients for six weeks and then fly off."
"Don't be sorry, it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."
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Originally posted by ERCougar View PostThe only person who questions this is niku. I run faster in st george than cedar, and that's only a few thousand feet difference (and hotter).
I absolutely believe in altitude effects, all else being equal.
Did you mean to say a few hundred instead of a few thousand?Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.
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Originally posted by ERCougar View PostI'm guessing you've checked out gc and mapmyrun? it seems like you could find a good canyon or lake trail.Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.
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Originally posted by nikuman View PostLet's be clear: I don't feel the effects in reverse. Or, rather, the effect of going up 6000 feet in elevation (actual figures) is more than counterbalanced by also going from 95 degrees and 90 percent humidity to 50 degrees and 10 percent humidity (also actual figures). So I suggest Coach try the same thing in July or August.
I absolutely believe in altitude effects, all else being equal.
Did you mean to say a few hundred instead of a few thousand?
I will dispute your numbers though...I've never run in 50 degrees in july. If we compare real temps, i'd say that the combo of hills and altitude is about a wash for the temp difference.
yeah-st george is a few thousand feet lower than cedar.At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
-Berry Trammel, 12/3/10
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Originally posted by ERCougar View PostI'm guessing you've checked out gc and mapmyrun? it seems like you could find a good canyon or lake trail."Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf
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Originally posted by ERCougar View PostI'm just messing with you-i figured you knew that altitude makes a difference.
I will dispute your numbers though...I've never run in 50 degrees in july. If we compare real temps, i'd say that the combo of hills and altitude is about a wash for the temp difference.
yeah-st george is a few thousand feet lower than cedar.
I didn't realize it was that much of a drop from cedar to st. george, but I looked it up. 3000 feet per wikipedia. I didn't know Cedar was that high.Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.
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Originally posted by nikuman View Postthe numbers are legit, but you are correct in that it wasn't July. It was September. It was actually colder than 50 degrees when we started, with cowboy as my witness.
I didn't realize it was that much of a drop from cedar to st. george, but I looked it up. 3000 feet per wikipedia. I didn't know Cedar was that high.
http://www.runworks.com/calculator.html
On a 1 hour 10K, it looks like you can cut about a minute for every 2-3000 feet of altitude loss. I don't know what the average hill profile of a SLC runner would be (I'm sure it depends on where you are), but mine is about 250 feet up and 250 feet down for my regular 6 mile run. If I flattened that out, it takes about 1:30 off. So SLC hilly (4300 ft) to sea level flat is about 3 minutes off a 1 hour 10K. That's the same as about a 25-30 degree temperature difference.
Here's a comparison of the average highs of SLC and Houston:
http://outflux.net/weather/noaa/index.php?cities[]=HOUSTON,TX&cities[]=SALT_LAKE_CITY,UT&compare[]=2&sa=Compare+Cities!&cx=partner-pub-0271172053863578:3880711149&ie=UTF-8&q=%22HOUSTON,+TX%22+%22SALT+LAKE+CITY,+UT%22+&co f=GALT:%230066CC;GL:1;DIV:%23999999;VLC:336633;AH: center;BGC:FFFFFF;LBGC:FF9900;ALC:0066CC;LC:0066CC ;T:000000;GFNT:666666;GIMP:666666;FORID:9
If the average July afternoon high in Houston is 94, and the afternoon humidity is 90% (can't do 95), that calculates to a heat index of 137+ (http://www.weatherimages.org/data/heatindex.html). SLC's afternoon high July heat index looks to be around 105, so afternoon July runs in Houston or SLC are about a wash. And really stupid.
The difference is in the mornings. Average SLC low in July is about 10 degrees cooler than in Houston, so it looks like a Houston run would be slower in the morning.
The other difference would be June and September, where SLC cools off 5-10 degrees more than Houston does.
Moral of the story: don't live in Houston.Last edited by ERCougar; 12-10-2010, 04:17 AM.At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
-Berry Trammel, 12/3/10
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Originally posted by ERCougar View PostIt's 3 am and the ER's slow so I played around with a calculator I like:
http://www.runworks.com/calculator.html
On a 1 hour 10K, it looks like you can cut about a minute for every 2-3000 feet of altitude loss. I don't know what the average hill profile of a SLC runner would be (I'm sure it depends on where you are), but mine is about 250 feet up and 250 feet down for my regular 6 mile run. If I flattened that out, it takes about 1:30 off. So SLC hilly (4300 ft) to sea level flat is about 3 minutes off a 1 hour 10K. That's the same as about a 25-30 degree temperature difference.
Here's a comparison of the average highs of SLC and Houston:
http://outflux.net/weather/noaa/index.php?cities[]=HOUSTON,TX&cities[]=SALT_LAKE_CITY,UT&compare[]=2&sa=Compare+Cities!&cx=partner-pub-0271172053863578:3880711149&ie=UTF-8&q=%22HOUSTON,+TX%22+%22SALT+LAKE+CITY,+UT%22+&co f=GALT:%230066CC;GL:1;DIV:%23999999;VLC:336633;AH: center;BGC:FFFFFF;LBGC:FF9900;ALC:0066CC;LC:0066CC ;T:000000;GFNT:666666;GIMP:666666;FORID:9
If the average July afternoon high in Houston is 94, and the afternoon humidity is 90% (can't do 95), that calculates to a heat index of 137+ (http://www.weatherimages.org/data/heatindex.html). SLC's afternoon high July heat index looks to be around 105, so afternoon July runs in Houston or SLC are about a wash. And really stupid.
The difference is in the mornings. Average SLC low in July is about 10 degrees cooler than in Houston, so it looks like a Houston run would be slower in the morning.
The other difference would be June and September, where SLC cools off 5-10 degrees more than Houston does.
Moral of the story: don't live in Houston.
Here's some real-world stats for you. I present the following runs for your consideration.
My marathon in Logan in September (starting temp 31, ending temp low 70s): http://connect.garmin.com/activity/49537466
The 20 miler I did for that run (started at 64 and 87%, ended at 77 and 83%): http://connect.garmin.com/activity/46475236
A disastrous 12 miler from earlier that training cycle (started at 78 and 93%, ended at 84 and 80%): http://connect.garmin.com/activity/43898046
A 19 miler in Montana this summer (started at 40ish, ended at 50 ish, humidity was in the low 20s at most - and be sure to check the elevation profile): http://connect.garmin.com/activity/41620032
A run done at my parent's place (consistently around 55 and 20, first few miles done with my brother so they are slower): http://connect.garmin.com/activity/36750641
Worst run of my life (accidentally paused my watch so it's in two chunks - started at 81 and 93, ended at 96 and 54 when I called my wife to come pick me up before I died): http://connect.garmin.com/activity/45316930, http://connect.garmin.com/activity/45316925
18 miler from a couple of weeks ago (started at 61 and 95, ended at 75 and 60): http://connect.garmin.com/activity/57671657
I'm not sure I know what this all means except that I felt very best on the marathon, second best on the Montana 19 miler.Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.
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