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  • #46
    Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
    I think we all have a disdain for the stereotypical bishop/sp, but I really haven't had a bishop that resembled the stereotype.
    On the first point, I would think that the opposite is true. I've never had a problem with a bishop of mine.

    On the second, I have no idea what you mean by the stereotypical bishop unless you mean someone who is a very faithful hard-working mormon. In which case, in my experience, all of them have been that.

    Seattle Ute's point actually makes more sense to me.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by jay santos View Post
      I've got an anti-authority streak. I know I'm probably a jerk for having this opinion. But it's very difficult for me to have respect for Mormon leaders bishop to stake president range. It's easier for me for some reason to have respect for GA's, maybe because I don't know any personally.

      My logic.

      1. Mormon bishops usually have busy jobs and large families with kids at home. It's irresponsible and neglectful to their families for them to take on a 20 hour a week extra job.
      2. In most areas where the church is strong, it takes a fairly high level of butt kissing and to get in a position to become a bishop.
      3. Bishops spend a large part of their time doing stuff I'd rather us not do as a church, ie courts, harassing people (errrr helping them repent) over chastity issues, etc.
      I don’t think that I’ve ever had “disdain” for a bishop before. And although I have never been a bishop or in a bishopric, I was an AP on my mission, so I am fairly well qualified to speak to the attitudes and experiences of those “few who are chosen” to preside.

      1) I think that this comes with the territory of having lay ministry. I personally think that our lay ministry is a net positive for the church. As with all compromises, you accept the positive with the negative.

      2) When I was a young missionary, I yearned to be AP. When I found out what the AP’s actually did (reside in the gossip center of the mission, travel around to all the cities in the mission, give dorky Jon Bytheway inspirational talks at zone meetings, etc.), I wanted to be one even more. AP’s are like the rock stars of the mission, all the glam and glory, and give the messy stuff to the president.

      This is where being an AP is nothing like being a bishop. The only glam about being a bishop as I see it is when all the primary kids rush to your office for candy after the block. Bishops have to put up with a lot of crap, and always with a smile, or else they will offend some poor soul who already is bitter and jaded.

      In this point your logic fails you. If a man aspires to leadership in the church, being a bishop would appear to be the hazing part of the induction process.

      3) I will agree to some measure that local leaders who appear to spend more time policing than they do serving bug me. Fortunately I have had little exposure to this. The worst I personally experienced was a Stake Presidency that harped on monthly tithing payment as superior to paying a tithing on a less frequent basis.
      Last edited by wally; 10-26-2010, 09:03 AM.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Art Vandelay View Post
        You would be shocked how much time it takes to search and destroy the souls counsel YM who are regularly staying abreast with their girlfriend.
        I have a good friend who is young, really young to me, 31. He has his own company that keeps him extremely busy, 3 kids 8 and under and a wife who used to be pretty independent, but has now decided he needs to spend a lot more family time. He is a scratch golfer and played college golf.

        Bishop called him to be the or a YM advisor (I don't know how that works). He tells me the job is burying him time wise. He said the Bishop wants him to mentor the kids. Which means, having personal talks with them on a individual basis and taking them regulary out to things like ball games and such. I don't know how this works as he is a YM advisor, but he only has 3 boys he gives the extra attention too.

        Now he tells me the Bishop called up and said they have 4 boys with a "porn problem" and he wants the advisors to spend extra time with these kids. He told me about the one kid and that kid really, really does have a porn problem.

        He feels overwhelmed and I asked him why he just doesn't quit or tell them he can't do it all. He says because he feels a responsibility to the kids. I admire people like that and told him so. I also told him I feel bad he can only play golf maybe 3 times a month now.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by byu71 View Post
          I have a good friend who is young, really young to me, 31. He has his own company that keeps him extremely busy, 3 kids 8 and under and a wife who used to be pretty independent, but has now decided he needs to spend a lot more family time. He is a scratch golfer and played college golf.

          Bishop called him to be the or a YM advisor (I don't know how that works). He tells me the job is burying him time wise. He said the Bishop wants him to mentor the kids. Which means, having personal talks with them on a individual basis and taking them regulary out to things like ball games and such. I don't know how this works as he is a YM advisor, but he only has 3 boys he gives the extra attention too.

          Now he tells me the Bishop called up and said they have 4 boys with a "porn problem" and he wants the advisors to spend extra time with these kids. He told me about the one kid and that kid really, really does have a porn problem.

          He feels overwhelmed and I asked him why he just doesn't quit or tell them he can't do it all. He says because he feels a responsibility to the kids. I admire people like that and told him so. I also told him I feel bad he can only play golf maybe 3 times a month now.
          Maybe he could grab the bishop and two of the boys and go play golf. He could do this twice a week and spend time with all four boys.

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          • #50
            I have never had a bad Bishop as an adult. Had a few weirdos as a kid/teenager. About the most sinister thing they ever do to me is ask me to do the music at meetings that they know damn well I would otherwise skip.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by TheAzzuri View Post
              I do sometimes wonder what keeps some of you from leaving altogether. I realize the forum is usually a place where the frustrations are highlighted and therefore not the complete picture and I don't presume to judge anyone's personal convictions. But if it's a net negative, why continue?
              I hate statements like this.
              "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
              "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
              "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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              • #52
                Originally posted by RC Vikings View Post
                Maybe he could grab the bishop and two of the boys and go play golf. He could do this twice a week and spend time with all four boys.
                When he plays, he likes to play for money so his competitve juices can get flowing. He another friend and I do what we call "hanging the sheet". The combo of the 3 of us take on anyone one else who wants a $5-10-5 best ball game. Pretty fun, we ususually have 70-80 bets.

                I don't think that would be good for the kids to come out and observe.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                  When he plays, he likes to play for money so his competitve juices can get flowing. He another friend and I do what we call "hanging the sheet". The combo of the 3 of us take on anyone one else who wants a $5-10-5 best ball game. Pretty fun, we ususually have 70-80 bets.

                  I don't think that would be good for the kids to come out and observe.
                  They may find they love gambling more then porn which seems like a step up and with that many side bets going just imagine what it will do for their math skills.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by RC Vikings View Post
                    They may find they love gambling more then porn which seems like a step up and with that many side bets going just imagine what it will do for their math skills.
                    I will mention that to him. I like the idea, but his Bishop might be like most ecclesiastical leaders are. They don't like to think outside the box and then explaining it to the Stake President.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by TheAzzuri View Post
                      Meh, nobody's perfect, but the original premise is unfair. I think if anything, they're guilty of an inability to say no. Outside of UT/ID area, the bishops I've encoutered spend far more time with welfare issues than anything.


                      I do sometimes wonder what keeps some of you from leaving altogether. I realize the forum is usually a place where the frustrations are highlighted and therefore not the complete picture and I don't presume to judge anyone's personal convictions. But if it's a net negative, why continue?
                      So disliking authority is a reason to leave...I agree! Wanna go fishing this Sunday Jay? I promise the experience will bring you closer to God and you actually get to spend time in a place He created!
                      Dyslexics are teople poo...

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                      • #56
                        I guess the only thing I can't get over with this thead is why you chose the word disdain. I could be wrong, I often am, but I believe disdain implys more than not liking something but feeling contempt almost to a level of hatred for. Considering how you explained your feelings, annoyed or irritated seems like a better choice.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Flystripper View Post
                          So disliking authority is a reason to leave...I agree! Wanna go fishing this Sunday Jay? I promise the experience will bring you closer to God and you actually get to spend time in a place He created!
                          The primary authoritarian in my household would never allow that.

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                          • #58
                            Love my bishop, SP.......not so much.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Art Vandelay View Post
                              I guess the only thing I can't get over with this thead is why you chose the word disdain. I could be wrong, I often am, but I believe disdain implys more than not liking something but feeling contempt almost to a level of hatred for. Considering how you explained your feelings, annoyed or irritated seems like a better choice.
                              It's more like a disgust combined with pity.

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                              • #60
                                I hate statements like this.
                                Why? It wasn't intended to be a "don't let the door hit you on the way out" statement. Like many here, I wish the church were more inclusive and less rigid about certain things. However, some (not all) seem to relish that pesimissm and distrust more than others. I guess I just don't get it.

                                It's not unlike my roommate at BYU who constantly talked about how much he hated it there. It wasn't like he didn't have other options. I never understood why he'd want to be in a place that caused him such obvious stress.

                                So disliking authority is a reason to leave...I agree! Wanna go fishing this Sunday Jay? I promise the experience will bring you closer to God and you actually get to spend time in a place He created!
                                See above. No offense was intended. And the question was more general than specific to Jay. I fully endorse fishing, however.

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