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  • For Profit Colleges

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/11/op...dehn.html?_r=1

    This is an interesting op-ed in the NYTimes about the problems with for-profit colleges. It's not attempting to be objective, so before you buy it all, make sure to look for opposing viewpoints. I'm sure that there are many gainfully-employed Devry graduates who are very pleased with their education. But, the number that really stands out to me is that for-profit students only account for:

    only 12 percent of post-secondary students go to for-profit colleges, they account for 23 percent of federal loans. And students at for-profit schools default on their loans twice as often as their public school counterparts, leaving taxpayers with the bill.
    IndyCoug has pointed out that education funding could be a future bubble. With numbers like that, I can see why he thinks that.

    I'm not a fan of for-profits for purely ideological reasons. This article signals reasons beyond my snobbery to dislike them more. Accreditation is a card game, but fleecing poor students by charging them more for online courses seems wrong. Online should cost more due to technology costs, but that's a trade off for not having to have a physical space, with its associated costs. If you cancel federal financial aid for for-profits, many of these places will collapse. Of course, so would my own institution, but we're a 501c3.
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  • #2
    Here is a link to an episode Frontline did about for profit colleges:
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...tm_source=grid

    From what I remember, the episode was pretty even-handed, but it did raise a lot of questions about the financial structure of these places and the unfulfilled (for many) promises that they make.

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    • #3
      Also for-profit colleges depend heavily on government funding of student tuition (grants, student loans, etc). There really is no such thing as pure for-profit college.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by jay santos View Post
        Also for-profit colleges depend heavily on government funding of student tuition (grants, student loans, etc). There really is no such thing as pure for-profit college.
        Another big source of $$$ - companies that reimburse employees for college tuition.

        My last company stopped paying for University of Phoenix courses for both undergraduate and graduate credits...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by I.J. Reilly View Post
          Here is a link to an episode Frontline did about for profit colleges:
          http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...tm_source=grid

          From what I remember, the episode was pretty even-handed, but it did raise a lot of questions about the financial structure of these places and the unfulfilled (for many) promises that they make.
          I was going to bring this up as well. It was interesting, like most Frontline productions.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
            http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/11/op...dehn.html?_r=1
            students at for-profit schools default on their loans twice as often as their public school counterparts, leaving taxpayers with the bill.
            I didn't know I could default on my federal loans...

            Maybe I should default on my loans, "Sorry, Uncle Sam, life sucks right now with this market". Goodbye $200K+ in loans.

            I bet I could still get a temple recommend, right?
            "Don't expect I'll see you 'till after the race"

            "So where does the power come from to see the race to its end...from within"

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            • #7
              ITT Tech closes 130 campuses.

              http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...g-a-hefty-bill
              Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

              There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

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              • #8
                this needs to happen. i think the washjngton post featured as part of its coverage of this some dude who ran up a $175k student loan bill at itt tech. any person who thinks that is ok should not be in college to begin with.
                Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Donuthole View Post
                  There are a few more out there that need culling. I'd like to see the entire "industry" forced to go 501(c)(3) or exist without federal financial aid. When you run a for-profit educational enterprise, your duty is to your investors, and the duty should be to the education of your students. Worrying about shareholders is a repugnant thought when making educational decisions. I feel schadenfreude over this news.

                  "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

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                  • #10
                    haha nyu
                    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

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                    • #11
                      I have a friend who runs owns/runs a dental hygiene college that is very worried about this. She really works hard to keep up with accreditation and to try and keep her students on track to graduate. Still this might end up biting her in the arse.

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                      • #12
                        On a somewhat related subject I caught part of the Ivory Tower documentary on tv over the weekend... It seems a lot of things about higher education could be reformed. For example a lot of state colleges have been pretty much turned into country clubs for students, offering $50 million party pools, tanning beds, etc to attract out of state students who pay 2x+ in tuition (or get twice+ as much in student loans). It seems more than just than for-profit schools are abusing the system.
                        "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                        "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                        "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Shaka View Post
                          I have a friend who runs owns/runs a dental hygiene college that is very worried about this. She really works hard to keep up with accreditation and to try and keep her students on track to graduate. Still this might end up biting her in the arse.
                          She could always reform as a not-for-profit. The scrutiny is tighter of your financials, but she could still pay herself a salary worthy of the effort she puts in, and then not be gone completely when Congress takes up the culture war over higher education in the next decade.

                          For example, here's a school with a 0% default rate.
                          http://www.navajotech.edu/
                          "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

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