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Thread: I love Utah politics

  1. #121
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCcoug View Post
    Don't argue with the "Libertarian".
    Haha. Exactly.

    First he mocks Utah for taxing everything, then he mocks Utah for missing out on taxing something. Typical.
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  2. #122
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    You are willfully conflating medical marijuana and recreational marijuana. Of the 28 states that have legalized marijuana for medical use, only 10 of those impose a tax on it.

    https://www.thirdway.org/one-pager/h...ical-marijuana
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  3. #123
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    You are willfully conflating medical marijuana and recreational marijuana. Of the 28 states that have legalized marijuana for medical use, only 10 of those impose a tax on it.

    https://www.thirdway.org/one-pager/h...ical-marijuana
    Yeah, and those other 18 states should be taxing those dumbass hippies to smoke their naturopathic remedy as well... Easy money, man. And hopefully less taxes for the rest of us.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Did a little more research on the proposed medical MJ law in Utah. It is a joke. Doctors allowed to prescribe MJ would include "naturopathic physicians", dentists, PA's, etc. In other words, just about anybody - nothing at all like a medical prescription. It would also be exempt from state tax. This is not about medical cannabis. It is an attempt to get legalize MJ through the back door. No wonder it is facing opposition.
    The opposition is not because it is an attempt to legalize MJ through the back door. The opposition is because there is a prominent entity in Utah that will oppose any form of legalization of MJ. Basically, if a MJ bill gets proposed, even if it is extremely restrictive, the LDS church is going to jump right in and kill it.

    If the only way to get some common sense going on this issue is to go with a ballot initiate, it is better to make the initiate broad and see what can be done. It will fail no matter what, even though there is widespread support. The plan fact is that Sunday before election day a letter will be read from the pulpit encouraging members to vote and to vote against the ballot initiative. This isn't a criticism per se, it is a fact of life in this state.

    Also, there is a lot of misinformation about this initiative floating out there. The UMA's statement was fact checked by the Ogden Standard examiner and there are some clear inaccuracies in their statement in opposition.
    http://www.standard.net/Government/2...ana-initiative
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  5. #125
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    The opposition is not because it is an attempt to legalize MJ through the back door. The opposition is because there is a prominent entity in Utah that will oppose any form of legalization of MJ. Basically, if a MJ bill gets proposed, even if it is extremely restrictive, the LDS church is going to jump right in and kill it.

    If the only way to get some common sense going on this issue is to go with a ballot initiate, it is better to make the initiate broad and see what can be done. It will fail no matter what, even though there is widespread support. The plan fact is that Sunday before election day a letter will be read from the pulpit encouraging members to vote and to vote against the ballot initiative. This isn't a criticism per se, it is a fact of life in this state.

    Also, there is a lot of misinformation about this initiative floating out there. The UMA's statement was fact checked by the Ogden Standard examiner and there are some clear inaccuracies in their statement in opposition.
    http://www.standard.net/Government/2...ana-initiative
    Meh. The main problems with the initiative are not debunked in that article.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Meh. The main problems with the initiative are not debunked in that article.
    It seems like your main problem with it is who can prescribe it. It basically just incorporates the definition of physician under Utah law and limits prescribing to those who are already authorized to prescribe Schedule II drugs.

    (1) For the purposes of this chapter, a physician means an individual, other than a veterinarian, who is licensed to prescribe a controlled substance under Title 58, Chapter 37, Utah Controlled Substances Act and who possesses the authority, in accordance with the individual’s scope of practice, to prescribe Schedule II controlled substances.

    (2) A physician may recommend cannabis if the physician recommends cannabis to no more than 20% of the physician's patients at any given time.

    (3) A physician may recommend cannabis to greater than 20% of the physician's patients if the physician is certified, by the appropriate American medical board, in one of the following specialties: anesthesiology, gastroenterology, neurology, oncology, pain and palliative care, physiatry, or psychiatry.

    (4) A physician may recommend cannabis to an individual under this chapter only in the course of a physician-patient relationship after the physician has completed a full assessment of the patient's condition and medical history.

    (5)(a) Except as provided in Subsection (5)(b), a physician eligible to recommend cannabis or a cannabis product under this section may not advertise that the physician recommends cannabis or a cannabis product.

    (b) A physician may advertise via a website that displays only:

    (i) a green cross;

    (ii) the location and hours of operation of the physician's office;

    (iii) a qualifying illness that the physician treats; and

    (iv) a scientific study regarding cannabis use.
    So they are letting people prescribe it who can also prescribe opiates. I know I may get some push back from you on this, but opiates are much more addictive and dangerous than MJ. If we are trusting someone to prescribe an opiate, I don't see why we can't trust them to prescribe MJ. I think you are getting some bad information about who can actually prescribe under this ballot initiative.

    As for exempting from state tax are other prescriptions exempt from state taxes? If so, it would make sense to exempt it.

    I don't think the initiate goes far enough, just establish recreational MJ like Colorado, Nevada, Washington, and Oregon and sin tax the hell out of it.
    Last edited by MartyFunkhouser; 04-12-2018 at 01:42 PM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
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    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  7. #127
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    It seems like your main problem with it is who can prescribe it. It basically just incorporates the definition of physician under Utah law and limits prescribing to those who are already authorized to prescribe Schedule II drugs.



    So they are letting people prescribe it who can also prescribe opiates. I know I may get some push back from you on this, but opiates are much more addictive and dangerous than MJ. If we are trusting someone to prescribe an opiate, I don't see why we can't trust them to prescribe MJ. I think you are getting some bad information about who can actually prescribe under this ballot initiative.

    As for exempting from state tax are other prescriptions exempt from state taxes? If so, it would make sense to exempt it.

    I don't think the initiate goes far enough, just establish recreational MJ like Colorado, Nevada, Washington, and Oregon and sin tax the hell out of it.
    Maybe. Maybe not.

    From the UMA document, it sounds like the "physicians" giving out prescriptions will be allowed to have ownership in dispensaries. Fundamental conflict of interest.

    Let's just write up a full legalization initiative and go with that. Stop with the charade.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Maybe. Maybe not.

    From the UMA document, it sounds like the "physicians" giving out prescriptions will be allowed to have ownership in dispensaries. Fundamental conflict of interest.

    Let's just write up a full legalization initiative and go with that. Stop with the charade.
    I don't think you can trust the UMA opposition on this. By the way, plenty of kick backs and fundamental conflicts of interest in the medical industry with what they get from prescription drug makers.

    I agree with you though, let's just write up a full legalization and go with that.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Maybe. Maybe not.

    From the UMA document, it sounds like the "physicians" giving out prescriptions will be allowed to have ownership in dispensaries. Fundamental conflict of interest.

    Let's just write up a full legalization initiative and go with that. Stop with the charade.
    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    I don't think you can trust the UMA opposition on this. By the way, plenty of kick backs and fundamental conflicts of interest in the medical industry with what they get from prescription drug makers.

    I agree with you though, let's just write up a full legalization and go with that.
    It is nice around here when you two agree on something.

    Just think how happy you will make all those poor Utah farmers wearing the MAGA hats!
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  10. #130
    вот так штука CardiacCoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Let's just write up a full legalization initiative and go with that. Stop with the charade.
    Yep I agree with this.

    It would be so lame and hypocritical to legalize recreational marijuana but call it “medical” marijuana.

    The fact is that when you legalize “medical” marijuana in this way a huge portion of the prescriptions go to young men in their 20s who represent themselves as having chronic back pain or something.

    So much better to keep the doctors out of it entirely rather than encourage a bunch of loser, unethical docs to be an integral part of a basically legalized recreational marijuana industry in the state.

  11. #131

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    We all agree. Legalize it.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

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