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  • Originally posted by SCcoug View Post
    Don't argue with the "Libertarian".
    Haha. Exactly.

    First he mocks Utah for taxing everything, then he mocks Utah for missing out on taxing something. Typical.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

    Comment


    • You are willfully conflating medical marijuana and recreational marijuana. Of the 28 states that have legalized marijuana for medical use, only 10 of those impose a tax on it.

      https://www.thirdway.org/one-pager/h...ical-marijuana
      Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

      "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

      GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by falafel View Post
        You are willfully conflating medical marijuana and recreational marijuana. Of the 28 states that have legalized marijuana for medical use, only 10 of those impose a tax on it.

        https://www.thirdway.org/one-pager/h...ical-marijuana
        Yeah, and those other 18 states should be taxing those dumbass hippies to smoke their naturopathic remedy as well... Easy money, man. And hopefully less taxes for the rest of us.
        "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
        "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
        "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
          Did a little more research on the proposed medical MJ law in Utah. It is a joke. Doctors allowed to prescribe MJ would include "naturopathic physicians", dentists, PA's, etc. In other words, just about anybody - nothing at all like a medical prescription. It would also be exempt from state tax. This is not about medical cannabis. It is an attempt to get legalize MJ through the back door. No wonder it is facing opposition.
          The opposition is not because it is an attempt to legalize MJ through the back door. The opposition is because there is a prominent entity in Utah that will oppose any form of legalization of MJ. Basically, if a MJ bill gets proposed, even if it is extremely restrictive, the LDS church is going to jump right in and kill it.

          If the only way to get some common sense going on this issue is to go with a ballot initiate, it is better to make the initiate broad and see what can be done. It will fail no matter what, even though there is widespread support. The plan fact is that Sunday before election day a letter will be read from the pulpit encouraging members to vote and to vote against the ballot initiative. This isn't a criticism per se, it is a fact of life in this state.

          Also, there is a lot of misinformation about this initiative floating out there. The UMA's statement was fact checked by the Ogden Standard examiner and there are some clear inaccuracies in their statement in opposition.
          http://www.standard.net/Government/2...ana-initiative
          As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
          --Kendrick Lamar

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
            The opposition is not because it is an attempt to legalize MJ through the back door. The opposition is because there is a prominent entity in Utah that will oppose any form of legalization of MJ. Basically, if a MJ bill gets proposed, even if it is extremely restrictive, the LDS church is going to jump right in and kill it.

            If the only way to get some common sense going on this issue is to go with a ballot initiate, it is better to make the initiate broad and see what can be done. It will fail no matter what, even though there is widespread support. The plan fact is that Sunday before election day a letter will be read from the pulpit encouraging members to vote and to vote against the ballot initiative. This isn't a criticism per se, it is a fact of life in this state.

            Also, there is a lot of misinformation about this initiative floating out there. The UMA's statement was fact checked by the Ogden Standard examiner and there are some clear inaccuracies in their statement in opposition.
            http://www.standard.net/Government/2...ana-initiative
            Meh. The main problems with the initiative are not debunked in that article.
            "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
            "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
            "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
              Meh. The main problems with the initiative are not debunked in that article.
              It seems like your main problem with it is who can prescribe it. It basically just incorporates the definition of physician under Utah law and limits prescribing to those who are already authorized to prescribe Schedule II drugs.

              (1) For the purposes of this chapter, a physician means an individual, other than a veterinarian, who is licensed to prescribe a controlled substance under Title 58, Chapter 37, Utah Controlled Substances Act and who possesses the authority, in accordance with the individual’s scope of practice, to prescribe Schedule II controlled substances.

              (2) A physician may recommend cannabis if the physician recommends cannabis to no more than 20% of the physician's patients at any given time.

              (3) A physician may recommend cannabis to greater than 20% of the physician's patients if the physician is certified, by the appropriate American medical board, in one of the following specialties: anesthesiology, gastroenterology, neurology, oncology, pain and palliative care, physiatry, or psychiatry.

              (4) A physician may recommend cannabis to an individual under this chapter only in the course of a physician-patient relationship after the physician has completed a full assessment of the patient's condition and medical history.

              (5)(a) Except as provided in Subsection (5)(b), a physician eligible to recommend cannabis or a cannabis product under this section may not advertise that the physician recommends cannabis or a cannabis product.

              (b) A physician may advertise via a website that displays only:

              (i) a green cross;

              (ii) the location and hours of operation of the physician's office;

              (iii) a qualifying illness that the physician treats; and

              (iv) a scientific study regarding cannabis use.
              So they are letting people prescribe it who can also prescribe opiates. I know I may get some push back from you on this, but opiates are much more addictive and dangerous than MJ. If we are trusting someone to prescribe an opiate, I don't see why we can't trust them to prescribe MJ. I think you are getting some bad information about who can actually prescribe under this ballot initiative.

              As for exempting from state tax are other prescriptions exempt from state taxes? If so, it would make sense to exempt it.

              I don't think the initiate goes far enough, just establish recreational MJ like Colorado, Nevada, Washington, and Oregon and sin tax the hell out of it.
              Last edited by MartyFunkhouser; 04-12-2018, 01:42 PM.
              As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
              --Kendrick Lamar

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
                It seems like your main problem with it is who can prescribe it. It basically just incorporates the definition of physician under Utah law and limits prescribing to those who are already authorized to prescribe Schedule II drugs.



                So they are letting people prescribe it who can also prescribe opiates. I know I may get some push back from you on this, but opiates are much more addictive and dangerous than MJ. If we are trusting someone to prescribe an opiate, I don't see why we can't trust them to prescribe MJ. I think you are getting some bad information about who can actually prescribe under this ballot initiative.

                As for exempting from state tax are other prescriptions exempt from state taxes? If so, it would make sense to exempt it.

                I don't think the initiate goes far enough, just establish recreational MJ like Colorado, Nevada, Washington, and Oregon and sin tax the hell out of it.
                Maybe. Maybe not.

                From the UMA document, it sounds like the "physicians" giving out prescriptions will be allowed to have ownership in dispensaries. Fundamental conflict of interest.

                Let's just write up a full legalization initiative and go with that. Stop with the charade.
                "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                  Maybe. Maybe not.

                  From the UMA document, it sounds like the "physicians" giving out prescriptions will be allowed to have ownership in dispensaries. Fundamental conflict of interest.

                  Let's just write up a full legalization initiative and go with that. Stop with the charade.
                  I don't think you can trust the UMA opposition on this. By the way, plenty of kick backs and fundamental conflicts of interest in the medical industry with what they get from prescription drug makers.

                  I agree with you though, let's just write up a full legalization and go with that.
                  As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
                  --Kendrick Lamar

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                    Maybe. Maybe not.

                    From the UMA document, it sounds like the "physicians" giving out prescriptions will be allowed to have ownership in dispensaries. Fundamental conflict of interest.

                    Let's just write up a full legalization initiative and go with that. Stop with the charade.
                    Originally posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
                    I don't think you can trust the UMA opposition on this. By the way, plenty of kick backs and fundamental conflicts of interest in the medical industry with what they get from prescription drug makers.

                    I agree with you though, let's just write up a full legalization and go with that.
                    It is nice around here when you two agree on something.

                    Just think how happy you will make all those poor Utah farmers wearing the MAGA hats!
                    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                      Let's just write up a full legalization initiative and go with that. Stop with the charade.
                      Yep I agree with this.

                      It would be so lame and hypocritical to legalize recreational marijuana but call it “medical” marijuana.

                      The fact is that when you legalize “medical” marijuana in this way a huge portion of the prescriptions go to young men in their 20s who represent themselves as having chronic back pain or something.

                      So much better to keep the doctors out of it entirely rather than encourage a bunch of loser, unethical docs to be an integral part of a basically legalized recreational marijuana industry in the state.

                      Comment


                      • We all agree. Legalize it.
                        As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
                        --Kendrick Lamar

                        Comment


                        • Just for fun...

                          I took a survey being done by the Utah Republican Party - I believe it was only sent to registered Republicans (a point I make simply so you know who is speaking here.)

                          Today they sent back the results to everyone who participated - I thought it was somewhat interesting, so I figured I'd share. FYI - there were just over 2200 responses:

                          First - the "no duh" responses:

                          Mitt Romney - around 1700 of those surveyed indicated they will be voting for Mitt. "Undecided" and "Other" both got more votes than Jenni Wilson.

                          Bishop, Curtis, and Stewart were all runaway favorites. Love will win - but it wasn't as lopsided as the others.

                          Now the rest of the story...

                          Prop 1 - fewer than 700 say they will vote yes, compared to more than 1200 voting no. Still 500 or so undecided.

                          Prop 2 - Just over 500 say they'll vote yes, compared to around 1600 voting no. This one actually surprised me - I thought it would be closer.

                          Prop 3 & 4 - There are more people undecided than there are either for or against these two. Which means no one has any idea what they are and haven't talked to their neighbors yet to see how to vote.

                          Constitutional Amendments - similar response. More for than against, but also more undecided than against.

                          Interesting to me - and will blow the minds of most here:

                          President Trump approval ratings: 44% approve; 23% somewhat approve; only 19% disapprove.

                          Finally - 75% think Kavanaugh should be confirmed.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Eddie View Post
                            Just for fun...

                            I took a survey being done by the Utah Republican Party - I believe it was only sent to registered Republicans (a point I make simply so you know who is speaking here.)

                            Today they sent back the results to everyone who participated - I thought it was somewhat interesting, so I figured I'd share. FYI - there were just over 2200 responses:

                            First - the "no duh" responses:

                            Mitt Romney - around 1700 of those surveyed indicated they will be voting for Mitt. "Undecided" and "Other" both got more votes than Jenni Wilson.

                            Bishop, Curtis, and Stewart were all runaway favorites. Love will win - but it wasn't as lopsided as the others.

                            Now the rest of the story...

                            Prop 1 - fewer than 700 say they will vote yes, compared to more than 1200 voting no. Still 500 or so undecided.

                            Prop 2 - Just over 500 say they'll vote yes, compared to around 1600 voting no. This one actually surprised me - I thought it would be closer.

                            Prop 3 & 4 - There are more people undecided than there are either for or against these two. Which means no one has any idea what they are and haven't talked to their neighbors yet to see how to vote.

                            Constitutional Amendments - similar response. More for than against, but also more undecided than against.

                            Interesting to me - and will blow the minds of most here:

                            President Trump approval ratings: 44% approve; 23% somewhat approve; only 19% disapprove.

                            Finally - 75% think Kavanaugh should be confirmed.
                            NOt surprised at all. Nationally, Trump's support among republicans is around 75%.

                            Comment


                            • I'm surprised that many said they would vote yes on Prop 2.
                              As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
                              --Kendrick Lamar

                              Comment


                              • I don't live in Utah, but I hope prop 4 passes. it's the anti-gerrymandering proposal. Gerrymandering and out of control idiotic tribalism go hand in hand.
                                Last edited by BlueK; 10-03-2018, 12:18 PM.

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